This may be a semantic distinction that only exists in my head.

Eh, quite possibly, but you've got a point. I think you're right that the basis for Mal and Zoe's relationship is that they're a team, above and beyond anything else. And they do talk--just not, you know, about their feelings and stuff. They have the "stoic guy thing" friendship down.

Zoe and Wash is different. She's in love with him, in a way I doubt she could ever be with Mal.

I don't know if you have to infer how much his mother may have disdained pretty things to explain anything.

I quite agree.

Hmm. It was an idle speculation, nothing more. And I didn't mean to imply that Mama Reynolds disdained pretties, only that she probably didn't have time for them. I never got the impression that Mal came from money. I think I heard him mention or imply that his life before the war was hard. He seemed to empathise with the settlers they dropped off with a few head of stock on some moon as soon as it was terraformed. But I could be entirely mistaken and have just read my own expectations into it.

I guess what I was trying to say was something of what Beverly said and also that for the most part -- unless you are giant big-time ranchers -- ranchlife is hard. Ranchers tend to be cash poor and not have time for frip -- even had they enjoyed same.

I can imagine that as Mal was growing up -- his mom having chosen to be a rancher -- would have put frippery aside, so that even if she liked it -- he may not have known.

The harshness of the life would likely only have been increased by her being single -- but would not necessarily have changed had Mal's dad been around.

I can imagine it too -- I think it's plausible. I don't think it's either definite or required though. As I said, I never imagined he had a luxurious lifestyle. I didn't know what his mother's marital status and job had to do with his taste in women, especially when you have to go through her expression of her aesthetic tastes to get to it.

Which, because I've spent a ton of posts on it sounds like I'm beating up Beverly. I'm just wondering about the lines drawn, and the need for those lines -- Occam's razor can probably get you there quicker, without fanon.

I think Mal's easy friendships with women is more related to the show creators' easy friendships with women.

This does not explain Angel.

the show creators' easy friendships with women.

Wait, I thought they were sexist bastards?

I so can't keep track anymore...

Wait, I thought they were sexist bastards?

It's a conundrum. Wait. Is that a word?

Not feeling beat up, just wanting to be clear.

I think I forgot to make the point that because Mal respected and (I'm guessing) got along well with his mom, he respects and has an easy rapport with women, especially women who work in non-gender specific jobs. And that he has less easy-going friendly, more wary and/or shippy feelings toward women who are in traditionally feminine roles.

I have the impression that he sees Kaylee and Zoe as who they are. But he sees Inara, and Whassname in HoG as potential sexual partners. I don't think for a minute that he thinks of Zoe or Kaylee *first* as a sexual being, although he knows they're not "guys." And I think that easy acceptance as other-than-sexual is a legacy of his regard for a strong, hardworking in a traditional male's role mother.

But that motivation was never actually on the page, or the screen. More just in my head.

And that he has less easy-going friendly, more wary and/or shippy feelings toward women who are in traditionally feminine roles.

This is also making assumptions about what is traditionally feminine at their point in the future. We never ironed out the boy companion thing -- do you get the feeling that it's odd for a woman to be a mechanic or a soldier? I hadn't.

hi allyson..is nilly awake?