Tim -- I like reading how you stripped off the flesh to get to the skeleton. And I like the skeleton and see it as important.

As I pointed out even about the snowy owl, I know precious little about the facts used in the story (except the totem, which as noted, is also in the script). If they turn out to be correct, then I stand corrected.

Allyson asked me what I was defending, the story or my vision of it. Which is a great question. Kind of both. When I said that I’m not dismissive of opinions here, I really meant that. If people like Kat and Allyson and Ita bristled, then there was something which merited bristling. I believe that. I thought it would be interesting and instructive to let you in a little on the process of doing something like this. How production realities, narrative need and concerns about sensitivities all wrestle with each other.

I do think the urge to use any given cliché should be carefully examined, and the spotlight is on the user.

Point taken.

Are there pretty racist stereotypes?

No.

In the case of this episode of Wonderfalls, you can count two mystical Indians to one mystical white woman. And one mystical Indian was dead before the other became mystical.

So, mystical Indians outnumber mystical white people 2:1, yet white people on Wonderfalls outnumber Indians by how many?

Basically, if white people's religion gets to be true, you're walking a dangerous path. You could end up being Touched by An Angel.

Indigenous people get to have real religions all the time. How lucky.

How production realities, narrative need and concerns about sensitivities all wrestle with each other.

See, eager as I am to blame everything always on the writer, I guess it's not precisely fair.

But if I give the writers all the credit, does it balance it out?

But if I give the writers all the credit, does it balance it out?

Rule of thumb? If you liked it, me. If you didn't, not my fault.

Rule of thumb? If you liked it, me. If you didn't, not my fault.

I want to take Tim's ego home and give it a blanket, a dish of kibble, and a fuzzy chew toy.

If people like Kat and Allyson and Ita bristled, then there was something which merited bristling.

I bristle a lot. So maybe I'm not such a good judge of merited bristling.

I believe that. I thought it would be interesting and instructive to let you in a little on the process of doing something like this. How production realities, narrative need and concerns about sensitivities all wrestle with each other.

I like the process. To me, your explanation gets a shrug and a "Huh." (and not my usual dismissive one, but a henh, interesting, I can see that sort of thing). In much the same way that your explanation of why the flamingoes gave advice that worked counter to all of the other advice and if Jaye had followed it would have meant a missed diagnosis of Dad.

In clearer terms, I'm always more willing to buy fallibility and a story constraint over a heated defense.

I still feel sort of bristley, but also, I'm eating chocolate pudding while sitting on an ice pack contemplating my 4 Month break, so feeling too happy to belabor my point.

Rule of thumb? If you liked it, me. If you didn't, not my fault.

So far so good, then.

I bristle a lot. So maybe I'm not such a good judge of merited bristling.

I never see you bristle without merit. Even without having seen it, I think there's merit to this discussion, just going on what I've read here (and mostly from you) and in the script.

How's the pudding?

So, mystical Indians outnumber mystical white people 2:1, yet white people on Wonderfalls outnumber Indians by how many?

Yes, but the main mystical person always in focus (or at least the mystically affected person) is a white woman. Isn't one of the problems with stereotypes that they make the stereotyped group somehow Other?

When watching the episode, did it look like all the Indians in the episode were sort of mystical (earnest question--I only read, and only, once)?

Basically, if white people's religion gets to be true, you're walking a dangerous path. You could end up being Touched by An Angel.

Which white people's religion? The one in which talking tchotchkes guide people, or Judaism, and the Christian denominations (which were referenced in Pink Flamingos, and Wound-Up Penguin)? I'm not being flip here. I'm not following this to such an extent that I'm not even sure I'm asking the right questions for clarification. The mysticism portrayed in the series (as far as I've seen and read--I've seen the first 4, and read the scripts I can find) seems to me to be apart from any religion. But I always figured there was a chance that when the coin bounced off the maiden statue, and hit Jaye in the head, that the maiden may have served as a trigger.

but the main mystical person always in focus (or at least the mystically affected person) is a white woman

She doesn't get mystical until episode 11. Supernatural, yes, but not mystical.

Which white people's religion? The one in which talking tchotchkes guide people, or Judaism, and the Christian denominations (which were referenced in Pink Flamingos, and Wound-Up Penguin)?

I may be behind on my White People Studies, but what religion has the talking tchotchkes?

Christianity was referenced, but not proved, if you see my distinction. Joan of Arcadia -- that's got proof. Touched By An Angel -- that too (although I typed Toughed By An Angel the first time -- much more fun, much more leather).

Up until Totem Mole, inanimate objects were animating for Jaye. Was she insane? Psychic? Touched by demons? Gods? That's a lot of spectrum of possibility, and I don't consider psychic mystical in the least.

In Totem Mole an outside established (although made up) religion affirms her experience. My reflexive statistical analysis is that that affirmation is more likely to come with experiential proof from a Mystical Native or a Magical Negro (probably practicing a little voudoun) than from a priest.