'The Message'
A thread to discuss naming threads, board policy, new thread suggestions, and anything else that has to do with board administration and maintenance. Guaranteed to include lively debate and polls. Natter discouraged, but not deleted.
Current Stompy Feet: ita, Jon B, DXMachina, P.M. Marcontell, Liese S., amych
I am kind of chagrined that I haven't realized that before. But if the MVT is 42, yet only 15 votes can carry the day, that seems off to me. I'd say it should be 50% +1 of all votes, too. I don't know from voting theory or whatever, so I'm open to hearing why or why not that's... I hesitate to use this word... fair.
ETA: I'll go back and read the links provided above, too.
This actually bugs me enough that I may propose that we stop allowing or having no preference. Or at least make it 50% +1 of ALL votes, not just the votes with content.
The whole point of a No Preference vote is that it counts towards the quorum of 42 without affecting the outcome. It's a way of saying, "I don't personally care which way the vote goes, but I trust other buffistas to make the right decision." If we say that a proposal needs 50%+1 of ALL votes, then a No Preference vote effectively becomes a No vote.
I'm willing to consense on this issue (HP7 spoiling in the Zombie Book Club Thread, no whitefont, till 4 weeks after hardcover release in the US), but once we've done so, I advocate that somebody do a linky announce what we've consensed in the Annoucements thread.
I'm totally consensing with Nutty and everybody else.
Regarding the "no preference" vote - despite wishing I didn't have to, I actually find myself using it more and more lately, as the topics for votes are such that I have no opinion on, whatsoever (mostly tv threads of shows I anyway can't watch, so discussions that anyway can't include me, no matter what the result of the vote may end up being). I mostly vote in order to play the part I can, in making sure there's the needed number of votes in the ballot. But I feel like it's not fair of me to vote either way when I don't really understand the issues discussed.
But it's definitely not a rule (for example, the vote that Laura linked to, earlier, had only two options, and no "no preference" one).
Also, Jon just said what I wanted to say about the 50% thing. As we decided it, it's 50% of the opinions that should go this way or the other, not of the total number of people who showed up.
I'm with Jon and Nilly on this one.
If we say that a proposal needs 50%+1 of ALL votes, then a No Preference vote effectively becomes a No vote.
Jesus, we'll be like the Senate.
Seriously, though, one of the things that makes ballot crafting complicated some times is the effort to have everything as close to straight yes/no as possible. Since we don't have any kind of preferential voting or run-off procedure, having three options that count that way would mean a lot of things end up in plurality no-mans-land.
I think the issue is one of education. So long as people voting No Preference understand the impact of their vote (e.g., a vote of Yes-6, No-5, NP-31 would pass), I think we should let them vote that way. As I wrote above, the NP voter is essentially saying (using the same example), "I trust those 11 people to do what is best." If you disagree with that, then don't vote at all. But to not allow that option is disenfranchising.
I agree with Jon about the education. Those of us who were around for all the hashing out of voting probably remember what "no preference" means-- that is, counting toward the minimum voter turnout but not the yes or no-- but others probably don't. Also, I proposed the vote on voting and I don't even remember the rules!
Perhaps we should put a little cheat sheet on the final proposal in press telling people the minimum voter turn out, the reality of no preference, and the 50% +1 thing.
Those of us who were around for all the hashing out of voting probably remember what "no preference" means-- that is, counting toward the minimum voter turnout but not the yes or no-- but others probably don't.
I remember, but it still sometimes bothers me when something passes with such a small number of the board agreeing to it.
"I trust those 11 people to do what is best." If you disagree with that, then don't vote at all.
This leads me to the question, can you vote on one issue on the ballot, but abstain from the rest, without using no preference? I guess that won't count as quorum for those issues, though, since the quorum is decided on total votes counted.
can you vote on one issue on the ballot, but abstain from the rest, without using no preference?
Yes.