I'm kind of leaning towards proposing a provisional or probationary thread for the FX shows, or provisionally expanding the definition of Premium.

I think that defining a thread by television channel is a clear way to let people know where to discuss a given show.

Beyond that, I'm not sure it's useful. Because it sounds to me like the *type* of discussion that SA -- and others (Corwood, David, amych?) -- want to have is a discussion that is able to encompass shows that air on more than one channel.

For instance, SA once told me about the similarities between Brian Kinney from Queer As Folk and the dude from Nip/Tuck who also was on Charmed (can't remember his name; not important for my example anyway).

Queer as Folk aired on HBO or maybe Showtime (uh, I think), and Nip/Tuck was on FX. Right now, that discussion couldn't take place, given how the Premium thread is currently defined (HBO, yes; FX, no). And, like David said, Natter is too diffuse to sustain such discussion.

It sounds to me that what's wanted is a thread where in-depth discussion of complex shows can take place. SA, Corwood, David, et al.: is that a more or less accurate statement?

Issues with such a thread:

(1) Define "in-depth."

(2) Define "complex shows."

(3) If a thread already exists for a "complex show" (Heroes, let's say, or Drive), then where does that show get discussed?

(4) Holy crap, all the whitefont. Or, conversely, all the spoilage.

I don't have an answer, and I don't really have a dog in this hunt. I'm just trying to help tease out what kind of a thread is really wanted. It doesn't sound like it has anything to do with what show airs on what channel, and it doesn't actually sound like it has much to do with fucking and swearing.

It sounds like....a general teevee thread, actually, with the stated intention of in-depth discussion.

In-depth discussion is good, but what's the best way to facilitate that?

OK, I've been thinking. I'll try not to ramble. I do like discussing TV with people here. And I've found myself going to TWoP more and more often to see what people think about shows. However, I don't want to lose natter in the process of creating threads with more and more specialized thread groups-- I also like the melting pot aspect of natter.

I am starting to think that I could go along with three TV threads:

• one for drama, and that includes Premium (check the dramatic forum at TWoP, that's what I mean);
• one for comedy (e.g. Adult Swim, HIMYM) and
• one for non-fiction tv-- this would include docus like Planet Earth and TAL, and reality television like TAR.

Not ready to make a formal proposal yet; I'd wonder if I'm not seeing the potential shows that fall in the cracks (anime?). Yes, this is three general TV threads. But it seems clear to me that we're not serving our needs without dealing with the TV thread problem. As far as whitefont goes, yes, it would be a lot of whitefont with the name of the show at the beginning. It would be like natter.

Uh, or What Bon Said.

I don't feel that maintaining bright lines dissuades discussion. Rather I think it facilitates it, by allowing newcomers and new-to-the-show-comers to easily find where the discussion is happening. I think it avoids ongoing meta with discussion inthread about whether or not a particular show is appropriate and thus improves the signal to noise ratio.

I know that's the theory, but really it isn't all that hard to find a thread for discussion. You pop your head into Natter and say "Where are we talking about Rome" and somebody points to the Premium thread. Or you try to talk about Rome in Boxed Set and somebody redirects you.

I don't really see scads of newcomers roaming lost on the boards anyhow.

I think you'll get a very clear bright line if we take a more experimental approach. Otherwise (until we run into band width issues) the trend will continue where popular single show threads will be voted in. It would be beneficial to the anti-proliferationists to address that very slow moving slippery slope. There will always be pressure to add new show threads - so let's find a way to accommodate that and keep clean bright lines by lowering the barrier to creating show threads, but creating some probationary structure to prune them out if they fail to maintain discussion.

Bon's approach is also an interesting new direction.

My concern there is that from my admittedly unscientific observation threads function best with something like 3 to 5 shows, and that having such large buckets will inevitably lead to big white font gaps.

So I'd think we'd need something like a rule that says it's open season for discussion on any show that aired that day without whitefont.

If you go into the general TV threads then you have to be willing to risk spoilage if you've saved things on TiVo and haven't watched them yet.

and that having such large buckets will inevitably lead to big white font gaps.

So I'd think we'd need something like a rule that says it's open season for discussion on any show that aired that day without whitefont.

I feel like if I can deal with a lot of whitefont in natter, I can deal with it in another large thread. I do do a lot of timeshifting though-- work late a lot of nights, Bob has classes, some nights are better TV than others. So I wouldn't want to avoid such a large thread so frequently.

nobody ever remembers to update those things.

Then remind an admin. I mean, once we've made a decision here to change the description/slug, is there really a significant delay in getting it done.

The divisions that Bon suggests are too big for me to consider useful for me. Blame TiVo or whatever, but there it is. Boxed Set is just as big as I can handle, and I'm hundreds behind right now because my TiVo refused twice to record The Dresden Files. And now I'm wondering if I should watch my ahemmed Doctor Who before going back in.

But I'm okay with that. SciFi's smaller than Drama.

You'll still have classification issues, so listing may come up again.

The whole "people can too find stuff" is a bit of a...it's a bit misleading.

I mean, if the Premium thread gets changed as described, and I go into Natter and ask where to discuss the next Homicide-level show, amych will tell me to go to Premium, and SA won't.

So far, people are asking for different threads but agreeing with each other. I'm not seeing how that's going to play out in reality without confusion.

I am starting to think that I could go along with three TV threads:
• one for drama, and that includes Premium (check the dramatic forum at TWoP, that's what I mean);
•one for comedy (e.g. Adult Swim, HIMYM) and
•one for non-fiction tv-- this would include docus like Planet Earth and TAL, and reality television like TAR.

So all tv would go to tv threads? I don't really have an opinion on comedy or non-fiction but as Hec noted, that is a pretty big bucket of drama.

It seems to me that Boxed Set works and that the Premium folks want a bigger bucket.

While switching to 3 big threads would eliminate the need for repeating this discussion it seems unwieldy to me.

My concern there is that from my admittedly unscientific observation threads function best with something like 3 to 5 shows

I think there could be more, but certainly smaller groupings than "drama".

It sounds to me that what's wanted is a thread where in-depth discussion of complex shows can take place. SA, Corwood, David, et al.: is that a more or less accurate statement?

Issues with such a thread:
(1) Define "in-depth."
(2) Define "complex shows."

So... Is there a way to clearly define a type or genre of show such that synergetic discussion can take place AND potentially encompass new shows by virtue of that existing definition?

Then remind an admin. I mean, once we've made a decision here to change the description/slug, is there really a significant delay in getting it done.

No, there's no delay -- but the people who know the slug should change are the people who were there when the topic began to drift: they usually don't notice that the slug should change. Like how seeing a teenager every day, you don't notice he's growing, but when his kin visit from out of state they're boggled by how much he's grown. Poor ND spent like a year with noplace to talk Stargate because Stargate talk was happening in Boxed Set, and it hadn't occurred to anybody who was actually in that thread to ask for the header to change.

So unless there are self-designated header police, slugs and descriptions are going to fall out of date quickly, just because we are both talky and forgetful meat.

In the thread's defence, the description was specific for those of us that thought genre was sff. I didn't know you guys had a different glossary. As noted, the idea of it being an sf thread predate its creation.

And these days, as shown above, thread 'drift' (or even actual drift) isn't going very unnoted.