and that having such large buckets will inevitably lead to big white font gaps.

So I'd think we'd need something like a rule that says it's open season for discussion on any show that aired that day without whitefont.

I feel like if I can deal with a lot of whitefont in natter, I can deal with it in another large thread. I do do a lot of timeshifting though-- work late a lot of nights, Bob has classes, some nights are better TV than others. So I wouldn't want to avoid such a large thread so frequently.

nobody ever remembers to update those things.

Then remind an admin. I mean, once we've made a decision here to change the description/slug, is there really a significant delay in getting it done.

The divisions that Bon suggests are too big for me to consider useful for me. Blame TiVo or whatever, but there it is. Boxed Set is just as big as I can handle, and I'm hundreds behind right now because my TiVo refused twice to record The Dresden Files. And now I'm wondering if I should watch my ahemmed Doctor Who before going back in.

But I'm okay with that. SciFi's smaller than Drama.

You'll still have classification issues, so listing may come up again.

The whole "people can too find stuff" is a bit of a...it's a bit misleading.

I mean, if the Premium thread gets changed as described, and I go into Natter and ask where to discuss the next Homicide-level show, amych will tell me to go to Premium, and SA won't.

So far, people are asking for different threads but agreeing with each other. I'm not seeing how that's going to play out in reality without confusion.

I am starting to think that I could go along with three TV threads:
• one for drama, and that includes Premium (check the dramatic forum at TWoP, that's what I mean);
•one for comedy (e.g. Adult Swim, HIMYM) and
•one for non-fiction tv-- this would include docus like Planet Earth and TAL, and reality television like TAR.

So all tv would go to tv threads? I don't really have an opinion on comedy or non-fiction but as Hec noted, that is a pretty big bucket of drama.

It seems to me that Boxed Set works and that the Premium folks want a bigger bucket.

While switching to 3 big threads would eliminate the need for repeating this discussion it seems unwieldy to me.

My concern there is that from my admittedly unscientific observation threads function best with something like 3 to 5 shows

I think there could be more, but certainly smaller groupings than "drama".

It sounds to me that what's wanted is a thread where in-depth discussion of complex shows can take place. SA, Corwood, David, et al.: is that a more or less accurate statement?

Issues with such a thread:
(1) Define "in-depth."
(2) Define "complex shows."

So... Is there a way to clearly define a type or genre of show such that synergetic discussion can take place AND potentially encompass new shows by virtue of that existing definition?

Then remind an admin. I mean, once we've made a decision here to change the description/slug, is there really a significant delay in getting it done.

No, there's no delay -- but the people who know the slug should change are the people who were there when the topic began to drift: they usually don't notice that the slug should change. Like how seeing a teenager every day, you don't notice he's growing, but when his kin visit from out of state they're boggled by how much he's grown. Poor ND spent like a year with noplace to talk Stargate because Stargate talk was happening in Boxed Set, and it hadn't occurred to anybody who was actually in that thread to ask for the header to change.

So unless there are self-designated header police, slugs and descriptions are going to fall out of date quickly, just because we are both talky and forgetful meat.

In the thread's defence, the description was specific for those of us that thought genre was sff. I didn't know you guys had a different glossary. As noted, the idea of it being an sf thread predate its creation.

And these days, as shown above, thread 'drift' (or even actual drift) isn't going very unnoted.

I'd like to throw something out there. Can the people in Premium who think these types of shows would be a good fit maybe take a step back and take a stab at defining why they fit? Gut-wise, I think I get it. But I don't really follow any of those currently, so beyond gut, I can't help.

If y'all who are watching them can come up with something more defined, then I'd be down with shifting the focus of Premium to a cussing and fucking thread. I don't think just the channel listing will work anymore, and the nebulous level on which we're talking about them right now is clearly causing people some issues. If there's a way to better define or pinpoint the points of connection so that they're more concretely stated, I think we'd have an easier time with this discussion.

My hunch is that that might be more easily done back in thread - but please don't take that as a "take this discussion elsewhere" or as trying to keep other people out of the convo. Just that my gut, once again, suggests that it might be better to have a more specifically show focused conversation and then come back here with a more solid proposal proposition.

I'd rather see it here, because even if it's not something I can participate in, I'd like to see it play out.

think "genre" first came up around here: Kat "Voting Discussion: We're Screwing In Light Bulbs AIFG!" Aug 20, 2003 9:37:46 am PDT as a consolidating term.

GAH! In my head, each time this comes up, I'm always bitching about the moron who came up with the word genre to signify sci fi. HA to find out the moron is me.

I have no strong opinions about how to subdivide TV. In reality, I think it's a sort of hat trick with the, as ita aptly put, desire to talk about the shows one wants to talk about with the people one wants to discuss with, which is a very amorphous categorization in my book.

As it is, I don't discuss TV here as I only watch 3 shows. So discussing in natter suits me just fine.

Can the people in Premium who think these types of shows would be a good fit maybe take a step back and take a stab at defining why they fit?

To me they're all post Homicide shows in the same sense that Charmed and Roswell and Veronica Mars are all post-Buffy shows.

Homicide is the template though: gritty workplace dramas specializing in complex storylines, moral ambiguity, no easy resolutions, harsh and violent.

Most also have a big Sopranos influence which manifests with a charismatic, violent, male anti-hero and tosses in a lot of Shakespearean intrigue with family and betrayal and power struggles.

Between those two I think you can hit on shows which are on the H:LotS end of the spectrum (The Wire) and those which are further over towards Sopranos (Deadwood, Rome). But both Rescue Me and The Shield combine elements of both. Hell, even Dexter has the violent male anti-hero.

Six Feet Under would be a bit anomalous in this mix - more of a family drama with a stronger female focus.

So far it looks like what's wanted is a thread where everyone inside knows why, and those outside don't.

Frankly, that's what it sounds like to me, but I'm an outsider.

As someone just starting to have time to watch more tv, I'm only now learning how the tv threads work. From where I stand, the categories are muy confusing. Oddly, what looks tempting to me is either bon bon's suggestion (although I tend to agree that Drama is too broad, may need to be pruned back a bit) and/or the Premium/Basic/Network divisions.

But I have a suspicion that there's a bigger set of issues going on here that are not being discussed directly this time around and that have to do with how this board is changing. I think we need to find a way to better tv discussion. More threads, with more easily understood categories, would probably help.