Steph, I think you're probably right, and it's likely my fault.

Laura, I don't know what to tell you. I've stated several times now that my "metaphoric punch in the nose" was about personal attacks, not criticism. And you can bet if anyone was personally cruel to you, I'd throw down.

And that I also admitted that my response to Juliebird was irrational, and that I apologized for my stupid issue inthread.

And you can bet if anyone was personally cruel to you, I'd throw down.

I know you would. We're good.

There are huge differences between "that's not my thing," "what a poorly-written piece of crap," and "the person who wrote that must be an idiot." I think we all do a decent job of responding appropriately to each. There's nothing anyone can do about the first, the second would probably lead to discussion, and if the third is about a poster here, it's inappropriate.

Steph, I think you're probably right, and it's likely my fault.

I'm sure that you've contributed, and -- unlike almost all of the other Buffistas -- you have an actual personal relationship with Tim, so your feelings about his work and criticism thereof are justifiably strong.

But you are *far* from the only person who contributes to the Don't Dis The Minear attitude. Seriously.

you have an actual personal relationship with Tim, so your feelings about his work and criticism thereof are justifiably strong.

This...but not to the point where people don't want to discuss things because they don't want to deal with the byproduct.

I remember getting into some pretty decent arguments in Wonderfalls about certain things I couldn't stand about the show.

I also remember (maybe at Worldcrossing?) when I started to really dislike Angel, and it was an unwelcome thing to vent about why.

I think part of that is what you said before about dislike of a show not really leading into much discussion after a while.

I think part of that is what you said before about dislike of a show not really leading into much discussion after a while.

This is the main thing for me. I didn't avoid posting about Firefly because I was afraid people would flame me; I just didn't have much to say that I hadn't already said. My dislike didn't have layers and complexities, like, "And THIS week's episode gave me a whole NEW thing to hate!"

FWIW, I think the tone of a thread varies a lot. I divorced Angel acrimoniously, and got no flak saying so in-thread; I had serious issues with Firefly, and got no flak for saying so in-thread. I wonder, a bit, if I would get flak for saying so now, about that latter, because the only people who seem to talk in the Firefly thread are positivists about the show and/or movie; but I haven't tested that recently.

If Minearverse has a personality problem -- i.e., it's not welcoming the way other threads are welcoming -- how would we fix that? Because, you can slap individual hands, but it's very hard to change a personality.

I mean, I suppose that airing the issue for the general population is one way of trying to fix a thread-personality? Like the irregular metaphor-caucusing we always used to do whenever we worried what the Buffistas would end up being. (Notice how we don't do that nearly as much any more.)

Okay, I'm going to say something that may be unpopular here, but since we're being encouraged to air our opinons, here goes.

Juliebird made a relatively innocuous comment about the promos. it was so innocuous to me that I didn't even know what the kerfuffle was about. Yes, the "it gets better, right" was snarky, but we're snarky.

Allyson then posts that she knows that it's irrational, but she wants to (metaphorically) punch anyone in the nose who says that Tim or Kristen suck. I think that she was saying "hey, please remember that the folks involved in the show are not just names on a script, but actual friends. As such, personal criticism of them will be taken, well, personally."

I think that she made a valid point. We often will call a writer or producer or especially a network executive, all kinds of names, but we don't know them. Tim and Kristen are posters on this board, and as such, community standards regarding discussion of them and their work should be upheld. I mean, no one would read some fic that someone posted and say mean things; we just need to remember that Tim and Kristen's work happens to be seen on television.

HOWEVER, this does not mean that the show cannot be criticized. We have the right to not like things. Any issue just must be expressed in a respectful manner. And Allyson saying that she wants to punch people in the nose sounds like she will go apeshit on anyone who says anything bad about the show. That's not what I think she meant, but the initial reaction upon reading the post is "whoa!", particularly in response to such an innocuous comment.

I said all that to say, we don't need a big discussion (yes, I'm a total hypocrite, sue me), just to remember that Tim and Kristen are board members, so any discussion of their work is subject to community standards.

I said all that to say, we don't need a big discussion (yes, I'm a total hypocrite, sue me), just to remember that Tim and Kristen are board members, so any discussion of their work is subject to community standards.

Actually, I'd sorta disagree with this last part. I think any discussion of THEM - as opposed to their work - is subject to community standards. I think "this (show, writing, acting - thinking of Eureka here, etc.) sux" posts aren't (unless they cross some other standard of offensiveness), but I also think they're not gonna generate much but disdain and snark if that's the level of discourse involved.

And Allyson saying that she wants to punch people in the nose sounds like she will go apeshit on anyone who says anything bad about the show.

Really? I'm not going to try and tell you what you took of it, since you're pretty clear, but I'm curious about others...her words didn't say this to me, nor her tone, and it's only with other people mentioning it that I even considered this interpretation.

I am with Frank. At least because we don't have any community standards for product, and we do for people.