That said, am I the only person who returns to the books and doesn't imagine the movie actors? They just fall away. There I am, thinking Aragorn's kind of a jerk again and Frodo is much thinner and browner and not nearly as pretty as Elijah Wood.
I suspect I'll take some with me and others not, and that won't necessarily have to do with whether I liked the portrayal or not. I don't think Sean Bean will be my book-Boromir, though I adored the work he did in the movies; Sean Astin, on the other hand, probably will be my book-Sam.
Oh, and I agree with you that Aragorn having to take a deep breath before turning around as King was wonderful. Loved that. I don't know that Viggo will come with me, but I think he will in spots - the dialogue with the head of the Houses of Healing, in RotK, where he's so snarky, for instance.
Speaking of looks on faces, the expression on Theoden's
right before the Fell Beast took him was a perfect "Oh fuck, you've got to be shitting me! We just took down Oliphaunts, now this?"
"Taking it" to me implies taking it for himself, which he does not do. The closest he comes to taking it is deciding he will send the hobbit with the Ring in his possession to his father.
Sorry, Sean. I can't join you in that teeny tiny corner. Faramir is supposed to represent that the blood of Numenor yet runs true in Gondor. The ring works in mysterious ways. MovieHim fails to resist the ring's desire to subvert the mission of the ringbearer and plays on his daddy approval issues to get him to misuse his power and force the ringbearer a) from his path and b) to Gondor where it will cause the destruction of the last bulwark of men in the west. Can you imagine Denethor with the ring? Faramir knows in his gut the old man isn't right in the head.
Failing marks for having power in a situation and misusing it for personal gain -- the very hallmark of the influence of the ring.
Your Faramir [shouldn't] vary. {grin}
I never had faces when I first read LotR. The places had visuals for me, but not the people. So, for my single reread since FotR, despite the cheesy 70s haircuts on my covers, PJ's cast (save Liv) slotted into their places, and even some of their voices followed.
IMHO, some of PJ's casting choices -- at least visually -- were influenced by Alan Lee's pre-extant pictures, which were already the gold standard in how the books looked. Getting Lee involved in the art direction was a master coup for the production.
some of PJ's casting choices -- at least visually
Which ones? I can see his influence all over the sets, and in some of the shot compositions, but I hadn't noticed much more.
(peering in)
Sorry to be off-topic here, but I'm at my wit's end and not knowing where else to put this.
KATHY ASTROM, I've been trying to reach you by email, no luck. Can you please email me? sf_deb@yahoo.com
Thanks.
I'm thinking particularly of his Sam & Frodo & Gollum pics.
Hi. I just skipped 400+ posts because a thought jumped into my brain as I was reading back to the Shelob discussion from Friday. I have no idea if these ideas have been mentioned or not, so I’m sorry if this is a rehash. (And if this should be white-fonted, please let me know.)
Pont 1: It seems to me that Tolkein is drawing upon the image, or rather the type, of Grendel’s Mother in the creation of Shelob. It has been forever since I last read
Beowulf
or any criticism of it, but as Tolkein was a
Beowulf
expert, it seems natural he would draw upon this very scary, threatening type of image when putting Frodo in danger. I don’t know what thoughts he had in regard to the gender of Grendel’s mother and how that stood as a representation of women. It’s possible that he just drew upon the scariest monster he could remember and remade it into his own monster.
Point 2: It was the quote that Plei mentioned above that really got me thinking, especially this line “but the belly underneath was pale and luminous and gave forth a stench.” This is almost a direct image from the beginning Dante’s
Purgatorio
, Canto 19, when the pilgrim dreams of the Siren. This woman (the Siren) appears to him as a deformed, ugly mess, but the more she speaks, the more he is attracted to her. When, in the dream, a mysterious woman calls to Vergil to stop her, Vergil rips off the Siren’s dress to reveal her
ventre
(usually translated as “belly”), which issues a foul stench that wakes the pilgrim from his dream. My master’s thesis was on this topic, and one of my arguments was that
ventre
was mistranslated as “belly” when “womb” is a more accurate translation to understanding the corrupt nature of the Siren and her sexuality. (It then went on to discussed the medical knowledge (or lack thereof) of the time and how that affected Dante’s view of women and sexuality. It was a thing.) I can’t imagine that Tolkein wasn’t extremely familiar with Dante.
So, I believe that Tolkein is certainly bringing some baggage to the depiction of Shelob, but what exactly the nature of the baggage is I can’t say. I can’t wait to read more of the discussion though.
Oh, and I saw the movie on Sunday. I didn’t bring enough tissue. I agree with everybody’s cry-points, and reading them makes me want to cry again. I can’t wait to see it again.
