So I didn't miss that! Thanks, Kathy-- I thought I'd blinked. Was the Sam cradling notdead!Frodo scene slightly different in the movie, too? I didn't notice spider-web in the poster.

Am-Chau, that poster isn't notdead!Frodo in Cirith Ungol -- it's reallytired!Frodo as they climb up Mount Doom/

Heh. I was driving to Chicago last night, and one of the roadside stands had a letter burned out. So what was left was 4-foot-high, red neon letters saying FIRE ORKS. Took me aback, I can tell you.

Oh! Thanks, ita. Heavens, I'm stupid today. Or was when I looked at the poster.

That scene for me reminded me so much of the poster that I was tense until it finally reached the right angle.

It was *so* close. So much so that I thought "oh, I've just misrembered the poster." And got sucked up in the story and didn't notice the moment it reached the right angle.

Evil DH leaned over when Frodo, Sam and Gollum reached Minas Morgul and Frodo started to walk toward the gargoyles, and whispered, "Okay. So. She's a dog." And when Sam reached Kirith Ungol and hestitated, apparently intimidated by its forbidding look, "This could be cozy. A plant and an uplight..."

Having just watched all three movies, Weathertop was never mentioned until Gandalf's line in ROTK.

I have some internal consistency issues with things Gandalf can do at one point and then doesn't do afterwards, even tho they'd be handy.

The round scar is supposed to be from the spear. Like a kevlar vest, I suspect the mithril prevented the spear from penetrating but dug into his skin quite a bit. Although it would've been nice for Frodo to have a bruise when recovering in Rivendell, but that might've impugned Elvish healing. It was so sad to see poor scarred Frodo, tho.

Back on the gender roles in Tolkein thing (dang it I wish I had internet at work)...Nutty spoke for me in a lot of ways, but although I did say that female spiders are the agressive ones, I think looking at Ungoliant is telling. Ungoliant was not created by Morgoth; she was there before him, and almost blotted out the world with her poison. In almost every culture, the pre-Apollonian ancient evils are represented by the feminine. Ungoliant and her kind have always existed and will always exist in the dark places of the world. That these places are often dank and cave-like makes it clear that they are the cthonian feminine. Tolkein had to have been building on this - it's too deeply-rooted, esp. in the European psyche.

Not to drag Paglia into it too much, because unlike Paglia I actually think feminine power comes not from being Apollonian but from being more protean. When the "strong female" criticism is broached, it's almost always people wanting to see a woman behaving in the masculine way, being a hero the way men are, not being strong in feminine ways. That the chtonian is considered "evil" is a whole other topic, because of course it often is the antithesis of progress or scientific thinking. But you need both sides.

Nutty also pointed out how often Frodo gets impaled...the Nazgul blade on Weathertop, the troll spear, some spoilery examples. To me, Frodo has always suffered a bit of gender slippage. The guy's a doll. Like Jesus, Frodo has to be male because it's the males who go out into the world and go on quests and enact change. But really, Frodo's not a male. He never fights, he doesn't attack anybody (except of course Gollum, when Frodo's gone completely mad. Frodo doesn't even attack Shelob, but hacks at the webbing.); he's a lifelong bachelor, not a sexual masculine persona as are Sam or Aragorn. Frodo's success is based on feminine qualities, like endurance and mercy, and on the very feminine tactic of creating a supportive group around him, rather than standing on his own.

So having posited Frodo as at least asexual, and quite possibly feminine, Shelob slips a bit to the masculine herself. She does impale Frodo, and cover him in sticky white stuff (okay, now I'm just riffing on Freudian interpretation...but the impaling stands). However, she is a cthonian evil, and she and Frodo are both too feminine, too much on the same side, to kill each other. It has to be Sam, the straight arrow, the rational male, to drive her off.

Back to looking a pictures of pretty hobbits and elves.

Finally saw it last night, at the midnight showing at Cinerama. DH and I felt like the oldest ones in the crowd, at the ripe old ages of 31 and 32, but decided that wasn't because we're the only people above the age of 30 who'd go at midnight, but because this particular showing was jammed with students from all the local colleges who'd just finished finals.

I'm about to post a meara, having read the whole thread this morning, but my overall reaction was very positive, but not quite as much so as I expected. Of course, the problem might've been my expectations rather than the movie itself--I went in fully expecting to see the Best. Movie. Ever., and it wasn't that. I'm not sure where it ranks yet, but it's somewhere behind FotR and The Shawshank Redemption, for sure. Still all-time top ten, though that's a tough list to make--I mean, how do you compare Bull Durham to RotK? Talk about apples and oranges. Anyway, DH and I thought the middle third was as perfect as anything that's ever been filmed, but that the first and last thirds dragged in spots (not that we had a problem with the multiple endings--that was necessary for the story).

I cried at Pippin's song superimposed on Faramir's charge, and again at the very end--when I heard lots of sniffling all over the theater. And my favorite moments were pretty much anything with anyone from Rohan, especially their arrival at Pelennor. And despite his relatively small screen time, my Eomer crush is starting to rival my Boromir love.

More to come....

But really, Frodo's not a male. He never fights, he doesn't attack anybody

Hee. Frodo is the Xander of LotR.