This is a time of celebration, so sit still and be quiet.

Snyder ,'Chosen'


LotR - The Return of the King: "We named the *dog* 'Strider'".  

Frodo: Please, what does it always mean, this... this "Aragorn"? Elrond: That's his name. Aragorn, son of Arathorn. Aragorn: I like "Strider." Elrond: We named the *dog* "Strider".

A discussion of Lord of the Rings - The Return of the King. If you're a pervy hobbit fancier, this is the place for you.


Nutty - Jan 06, 2005 1:06:47 pm PST #3564 of 3902
"Mister Spock is on his fanny, sir. Reports heavy damage."

Hm. I'm still fouled up on "wheat of the gods". Does that mean, like, gluten-free flour?

I don't 100% disagree with the article in question -- I think Tolkien wrote women the same way Goethe did, das ewig weibliche as the power that enriches and redeems the human race. But I really hate articles that state this basic thesis in ways that glorify it, and that goes double when the article in question feels like something shelved between the "Conversations with the Dalai Lama" and "Healing Your Inner Child" in the Unicorn Books And Spiritual Tools store.


dcp - Jan 06, 2005 1:31:16 pm PST #3565 of 3902
The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know.

Merry and Frodo both grew up in Brandy Hall, but Frodo was adopted by Bilbo at around 20, IIRC. Pippin grew up on the other end of the Shire in Tuckborough. Sam was the only one to spend his entire life in Hobbitton.

Frodo was born in S. R. 1368. His parents died in 1380, and Bilbo adopted him in 1389.

Sam was born in 1380, Merry in 1382, and Pippin in 1390.

aren't Merry and Frodo cousins? Or Pippin and Frodo?

All three are cousins of various (and multiple) degrees.

Merry and Pippin are double cousins -- 1st and 3rd.

Merry married his 3rd cousin Estella Bolger, who is not only another one of Pippin's 3rd cousins but also Frodo's 2nd cousin once removed. Estella is the sister of Fredegar "Fatty" Bolger.

Frodo is Merry's 1st cousin once removed, 2nd cousin once removed, AND 3rd cousin once removed.

To put it another way: Merry's father was Frodo's 1st cousin, and Merry's mother was both Frodo's 2nd cousin and his 3rd cousin. Merry's parents were 2nd cousins, which makes Merry his own 3rd cousin.

Frodo is both Pippin's 2nd cousin once removed and his 3rd cousin once removed.

What? It's a small Shire. Lots of intermarriage between families.

Oh, and by the way, Sam's daughter Goldilocks married Pippin's son Faramir.

I'm still astonished that Tolkien worked out all the genealogies as thoroughly as he did.


beathen - Jan 06, 2005 1:39:39 pm PST #3566 of 3902
Sure I went over to the Dark Side, but just to pick up a few things.

I'm still astonished that Tolkien worked out all the genealogies as thoroughly as he did.

Not to mention creating several (somewhat useable) languages.


DXMachina - Jan 06, 2005 1:44:21 pm PST #3567 of 3902
You always do this. We get tipsy, and you take advantage of my love of the scientific method.

I'm still astonished that Tolkien worked out all the genealogies as thoroughly as he did.

There was no internet in his day. He had no way else to procrastinate.


dcp - Jan 06, 2005 1:49:38 pm PST #3568 of 3902
The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know.

"wheat of the gods"

From: [link]

Lembas was originally given to the Elves by Yavanna. She sent Orome to give the Elves lembas for their Great Journey to Eldamar. Yavanna made the lembas from corn that she grew in the fields of Aman and the cakes imparted the strength of that land to those who ate it.

The Elves learned to grow this corn in Middle-earth. The secret of making lembas was kept by Elven women called Yavannildi, the maidens of Yavanna. Only they were permitted to handle to corn and bake it into cakes. The highest-ranked woman was called massánie or besain: the Lady, or breadgiver.

The Elves rarely shared lembas with mortals because it would cause them to become weary of their mortality and to long for Aman, where they could not go. Melian showed great favor to Turin when she gave Beleg lembas to bring to his friend in the wild. This was the first time the Elves had provided lembas for the use of Men.

Seems to me that "corn" in this context probably means barley, not wheat. Certainly not maize.


Beverly - Jan 06, 2005 2:01:18 pm PST #3569 of 3902
Days shrink and grow cold, sunlight through leaves is my song. Winter is long.

"Corn," if I'm not mistaken, is a synonym for "grain" in England.


JohnSweden - Jan 06, 2005 2:08:30 pm PST #3570 of 3902
I can't even.

The highest-ranked woman was called massánie or besain: the Lady, or breadgiver.

Which scans nicely onto Old English/Anglo-Saxon, where the word for Lady is hlafdige -- bread-kneader/loaf-maker.


dcp - Jan 06, 2005 2:11:05 pm PST #3571 of 3902
The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know.

Dictionary.com agrees with you.

corn

3. Chiefly British. Any of various cereal plants or grains, especially the principal crop cultivated in a particular region, such as wheat in England or oats in Scotland.

I thought in the UK "corn" only meant barley. Hunh.


esse - Jan 07, 2005 3:10:25 am PST #3572 of 3902
S to the A -- using they/them pronouns!

Connery's from Edinburgh, and Billy's a Glaswegian. East coast/west coast -- big difference.

Indeed.

John, I might hit you up for your suggestions of stuff to do when we get back to Scotland. We're there for like nine days, and I've already done the touristy stuff, at least in Edinburgh.


libkitty - Jan 07, 2005 1:05:41 pm PST #3573 of 3902
Embrace the idea that we are the leaders we've been looking for. Grace Lee Boggs

Frodo was born in S. R. 1368. His parents died in 1380, and Bilbo adopted him in 1389.

Sam was born in 1380, Merry in 1382, and Pippin in 1390.

Age is one of the things that bothered me a lot in the movies. Elijah Wood is all cute and everything, but he's just too young. I realize that hobbits don't show their age like humans do, but still, the actor should have been at least in late 20s or 30s. I hadn't remembered that Frodo was supposed to be older than Sam, but it certainly makes their relationship make more sense.