I can totally see that nickname for him.

Just watched Disk 5, and my overwhelming feeling from the extra material is sheer wonder at how close the movies came to being a complete train-wreck. I mean, no matter how much I complain about the odd writing changes that made it to the screen (Denethor's death, elves showing up at Helm's Deep, Frodo wrestling Gollum at the Crack o' Doom, everything Arwen) they had stuff in the can, in fairly final state, that was much MUCH worse.

That, and I am still kicking myself for not just up and moving to New Zealand 4-5 years ago when I saw the first call for talent. I didn't HAVE any talent, but I'm sure I could've done something to contribute, and how great would it have been to be involved in that project? Not your standard movie shoot.

I am still kicking myself for not just up and moving to New Zealand 4-5 years ago when I saw the first call for talent

You're kicking yourself, Hubby had an invitation to be one of the siege crew at Minas Tirith, if he could have found plane fair to NZ. Of course, his health went into freefall not long after the invite, so it's just as well. I don't think I could have handled a late-night international phone call about my husband and a heart attack.

they had stuff in the can, in fairly final state, that was much MUCH worse.

Oh yeah, I am so greatful the sanity prevailed vis-a-vis the original concept for the battle at the black gate and the materialization of Sauron . That may be a WORSE idea than having Arwen show up at Helm's Deep as originally planned.

Hubby had an invitation to be one of the siege crew at Minas Tirith, if he could have found plane fair to NZ.

(jealous)

Of course, his health went into freefall not long after the invite, so it's just as well.

(less jealous) Good point. But maybe fighting the War of the Ring would've effected a miracle cure.

and cereal:

I am so greatful the sanity prevailed vis-a-vis the original

Even before the first photos from the first movie leaked, we'd been joking about how Arwen was going to have a martial-arts duel with Sauron at the end of ROTK. Oddly prescient.

Although I actually did like seeing Sauron the Fair.

And, OMG, Frodo pushing Gollum in?!? WtF? Did they read none of the analysis of Frodo as Christ? That's an even worse mistake than originally calling the movie "Revenge of the Jedi." And completely unnecessary. And if anyone was going to push Gollum in, it would've been Sam.

I wonder if we see too much. PJ especially is un-hesitant about letting us see a million things that never made it to screen.

Somewhere during the EE, and my note-giving on such, I stopped and asked myself if I'd a) really enjoyed the theatrical version and b) really enjoyed the chance to wallow in the almosts of the EE.

The answer to both questions was a resounding yes. However, in pre-director's-cut days, and pre EE days, and pre commentary days, movies were just movies. You got to read some interviews, maybe hear a little scuttlebutt, but it was easy to pretend it leapt out of the director's head, through the cast and crew, onto the screen, just like that, if you needed to.

Now everyone (and I'm not just talking PJ, although he's most) is so second-guessable. I relish the amount of detail a good DVD's extras give me, the sensation of closeness to the whole effort, but in the end, is the movie helped by taking everyone down off creative pedestals (though, sure, LotR EEs created their own pedestals and hopped up on them, what with the attention to a million details we never saw)?

But even back in the studio days, the promotions department would make lots of little featurettes that would get attached to the double features, or shown on "Disneyland," which were about the behind-the-scenes stuff that goes into making whatever blockbuster they were promoting at the time. I remember seeing lots of little films on the DVD release of My Fair Lady and Mary Poppins.

LotR EEs created their own pedestals and hopped up on them, what with the attention to a million details we never saw

Yes, this.

I actually like the generosity that PJ and crew demonstrate in showing us the fuck-ups, and almost-fuck-ups. It's so different from the Hollywood style of director's cut or additional footage or DVD extras. And in this case, I'm going to be a bit less critical of the final on-screen product now that I know what we were saved from. And to me, seeing that their first ideas were not always brilliant and that they kept working to refine them makes those creative pedestals higher, rather than pulling them down.

Actually the attention-to-a-million-unseen-details is pretty un-Hollywood too. Weta was no Lucasfilm or Skywalker Sound, with a million demands on their time and rigorous contracts to meet. I bet the creative guys in Hollywood would love to have years on a film with complete access to whoever and whatever they needed (but they'd probably like to keep their current salaries).

even back in the studio days

Maybe I just wasn't paying attention, but in the pre-comprehensive-DVD days, I had no simple access to the amount of details I do now. If I didn't troll the 'net, it was all down to the media junket, which certainly didn't tell me about the fart jokes that didn't make it in, or the actor's choices at a given point in the movie, or the composer's train of thought just here.

I bet the creative guys in Hollywood would love to have years on a film with complete access to whoever and whatever they needed

I can just imagine ...

I'm breathtaken by what was accomplished, and the DVDs make it even more impressive, but part of me also wanted to regard PJ (or any creator of something I like) as someone who never committed a misstep to celluloid (or whatever those crazy kids use these days).

And if I'm remembering correctly, PJ has said he'd love to give out even more gory details, but can't right now. Specifically, I think he means the machinations that went down getting the films green lit (and also the Stuart Townsend fiasco - talk about things that would have been a mistake).