It bugged me that he wasn't tempted in the book.

It always bugged me as well. I am more than OK with the movie change. Same w/Sam and Frodo - actually I was watching FotR EE day before yesterday and during the scene at the end when he rescues him from drowning I got all sad thinking about Frodo making Sam leave in RotK.

Speaking of FotR - I know Pippin is the one we are supposed to be most worried will not have the courage to fight when the time comes (in the book especially because of Elrond's warning we are supposed to be afraid he is gonna buy it at any moment- but also in the movie there are shades of this) Galadriel tells him that he will "find his courage" and all. But - dude - he is courageous the whole time! He gets on the cave trolls head (w Merry) and attacks it (at that point it's just him) so Legolas can kill it, he comes out of the hiding place first to stop Frodo from leaving, he attacks the Urak-Hai with the same bloodlust/revenge that Merry does.

I'm not saying he missed his calling as a mercenary or anything, but his displays of courage in FotR *almost* make his freaked-outedness not really buyable for me when he attacks the orc during the seige at Minas Tirith in hindsight.

For me, tina, it's him being separate from Merry that makes it so believable. Merry sees the gravity, takes the initiative. Pippin seems to do what Merry does, because why not?

It's not until he's forcibly separated that he needs to think hard on why he's doing what he does.

I saw the whole lembas incident as being the replacement for the Choices chapter, at least in terms of being Sam's low point. They couldn't have Choices in the film as it was in the book, since it's all about internal struggle that requires dialogue to express what the struggle is, which would be completely out of place in a film that has prided itself on using as little dialogue as possible. So, they had to externalize the struggle somehow, and the best way to drive Sam to his worst moment ever was by having Frodo turn on him.

As much as I adore the way that JRRT wrote the entire Frodo/Sam storyline, I like the way that the screenwriters have added more tension between them than is in the book. It makes Frodo less of a saint and more believable, IMO. I was rereading the Mordor section of RotK last night for the first time since the movie came out, and when I read the Wheel of Fire speech, I realized that every time I've read it in the past, I've assumed that Frodo delivered it in a exhausted, defeated monotone. I prefer the more impassioned movie version over what was in my head.

For me, tina, it's him being separate from Merry that makes it so believable.

I agree. He is def. lost and has to consider each thing he does more without Merry, but he had already taken the oath in front of Denethor. He has taken initiative there - so why be so freaked out about killing one orc (OK that is three times his size) besides, of course, the fact that PJ wanted me to make me weep for two solid hours?

I am just nitpicking, I know. I just struck me how Pippin is not really wimpy at all on re-watch.

eta: context

he had already taken the oath in front of Denethor. He has taken initiative there

And he questioned its meaning almost right afterwards. He's goodhearted and impetuous -- if he had Merry with him, he'd do absolutely anything, because he wouldn't have to consider the implications.

But it morphs hand in hand with his relationship with Gandalf -- as Pippin becomes more introspective, realises he just can and doesn't need his other half for momentum, Gandalf shifts from scolding to such delightful fondness.

His story is my favourite of them all. Loss of innocence, especially through battle, always gets me.

That whole oathtaking scene was brilliantly done, both in the way it was acted and the way it was shot. The focus is on Pippin during the oathtaking, then he stands just as Denethor says "...oathbreaking with vengence," and we see both his and Faramir's heraldry on their chests at the same level on screen, and the focus immediately shifts to Faramir, who reacts to that last line as his father's dig against him that it was intended to be.

Heh, when Gandalf turns around and realizes that the "Fool of a Took" just saved his, the mighty Gandalf the White's, life...

His story is my favourite of them all.

It's hard to say which individual character's story is my favorite in the movie...RotK gave me INSANE love for Sam that I didn't know I had - even beyond the big love I have for book!Sam. But Merry and Pippin, both individually and together, (Individually, I enjoy Merry's story so much more in the book than I do the movie.) are my emotional buttons in the movies - much more so than any other storyline or character.

That whole oathtaking scene was brilliantly done, both in the way it was acted and the way it was shot.

Oh yes.

The focus is on Pippin during the oathtaking, then he stands just as Denethor says "...oathbreaking with vengence,"

Ah, Kathy, if only he did say "oathbreaking with vengeance". Maybe he will in the EE.

t rassenfrassen trust the audience, trust the book, PJ, bitter tag never closes

OK, I'm getting my Denethor lines confused. I know he said something different in the film than in the book at that point, but I thought it was "vengence"--what was it in the film?