since he had not that much to say, he had to be elfy in every motion and stillness

And my god, was he ever. He takes my breath away, even when he's just standing in the background looking intense.

You haven't seen her in the flesh, Katie. She's jaw-dropping.

Well, I wouldn't've seen her in the flesh as Arwen either. (Though I take your point, and I can totally believe it.)

I do think she could do it, but it would have been a very different character. On the other hand, she would have brought a maturity and wisdom to the role that Liv isn't really capable of, and I think would have really convinced me that someone of Aragorn's experience would have found her compelling.

Well, that's true. Honestly - and I haven't seen the movie yet, so my opinion may change - I never really expected to get Aragorn's love for Arwen. It's just a required plot point for me. So it probably bothers me less in theory that Arwen isn't all that compelling, because I never expected her to be compelling.

(I mean, practically speaking Claudia Black as Arwen would've pushed me over the edge, because I would've spent the entire trilogy thinking "just shoot them all, dammit! And buy some leather!")

Arwen at Helm's Deep. I don't know. I thought Haldir was funnylooking and slightly icky, so I would have been just as glad to get rid of him. (Also, every time an elf is killed, a mundane is sitting there wondering, Wait, I thought they were immortal...?) Could Arwen have been at Helm's Deep without making me crazy? I don't know -- maybe if played by a different, harder actor.

Thinking unconventionally, the ways I would probably heal the Arwen Problem would revolve around the armies of Galadrim. We know the Galadrim go to war in the books (although we don't really know it till later, and the movies rightly cut out any mention of Dol Guldur), so why not have, say, instead of her deciding to head west in TTT, she takes a small army to Lorien, and marshals the Lorien forces that remain after Haldir heads out. (WHY is Haldir not a brunette? Craig Parker is cute enough; no need to make him look like Barbra Streisand.)

In ROTK, this scenario would mean that Arwen is leading an army of elves to the Battle of the Pelennor Fields -- which means there would need to be an in-advance muster of Gondor after all -- which totally flies in the face of canon, but at least it gives her a role to play, keeps her busy and away from Strider until such time as a dramatic reunion can occur, and fulfills the spirit of the Last Alliance.

Also: Slow motion completely disallowed when she is on screen. Also vaseline filters. If Legolas can take harsh light, so too should Arwen. I don't think they needed somebody older, but they needed somebody with gravity to her. (Which often translates in movies to older, but needn't necessarily.)

For entertainment, I am going back through old reviews of teh trilogy movies and books. Elvis Mitchell sure brought in the (affectionate) snark, man:

Mr. Jackson apparently feels that the way to keep each of the fighting groups separate in the audience's minds is to provide them with hairstyles reminiscent of 1970's bands. The hobbits all have heads of tossled curls — they're like members of Peter Frampton's group. Aragorn and Boromir have the long, unwashed bushes of Aerosmith, and the flaxen-maned Legolas has the fallen-angel look of one of the Allman Brothers. (The tubby, bilious and bearded Gimli could be a roadie for any of them.) "Fellowship" plays like a sword-and-sorcery epic produced by VH-1. Together, they rock against the forces of Sauron — the evil wizard who created the Ring that Frodo holds.

[Elijah] Wood's light, tremulous voice for Frodo and earnest, pointed face offer decency. He sometimes seems to possess the visage that Michael Jackson has spent a lot of money having sculptured by man-made means.

battles between the forces of good and evil — a word from which British stage actors can extract at least three syllables.

He sometimes seems to possess the visage that Michael Jackson has spent a lot of money having sculptured by man-made means.

This is very very true.

And speaking of 70s band hair, I was seriously distressed by the amount of Actual Hobbit Hair I saw at the theatre last night. Bringing the trilogy into major cultural prominence for non-geeks? Fantastic. But did there have to be real-world "fashion" spillover? t shudder

Right. The cultural moment of the Flow-Bee has come and gone, people. Let it lie until VH1 comes along and does a year-by-year clip-show, and you're middle-aged and can laugh at yourself.

At least Legolas's hair remains largely uncopied.

See, Orlando's rocking the hobbit hair -- they're probably not running the numbers and seeing that their lack of unearthly beauty is going to hamstring their attempt.

Wonder why test audiences didn't catch that?

The only test audiences they screened the movie for were the cast and crew. PJ doesn't like test audiences, and I kind of agree with him.

I was going to say that if there was a church of tolkien writings, I'd belong to that, but I suppose I already do.

JohnS, that is exactly how I feel. The LotR books touch me in a way the Bible never did. It all feels "truer" to me, somehow.

And count me in as another person who's irritated that the writers took Arwen from a warrior princess to a placeholder for woman. Arwen in rewrites became to Aragorn almost exactly what Aragorn was to Eowyn -- an object of desire more meaningful in the wanting than in the having. Feh.

Arwen (who gets to sit next to her father, sew a banner, get married, and give Frodo her place on the boat to Valinor - does she even have *lines* in the book before RotK?)

No, she doesn't.

give Frodo her place on the boat to Valinor

Is this what she was talking about, oddly, when she's giving Frodo her grace in FotR? That was a weird line, like she was throwing her immortality at any old guy.