Sooo...to continue on with Steph's line of questioning. The ring was known 3000 years ago, and then virtually lost. So much so that Gandalf didn't really know what it was, and had to bust his ass researching the thing. And then after that, everyone seems to know about it! What's up with that?

Yeah, that was one of the liberties Jackson took when translating the books into film.

In the books nobody knows squat about it, in the movies, everybody's a friggin' History of the Second Age, and it's Attendant Relics and Artifacts scholar.

Everyone knew about the One Ring from legend, but assumed it had been lost forever, since it had been a few thousand years since anyone had seen it. All Isildur's records added was the way for Gandalf to prove that Bilbo's ring was The One, and not just some Elvish trinket.

[edit:

In the books nobody knows squat about it

Well, not exactly. The hobbits were totally ignorant, but the more wordly characters had at least heard of it in a historical context.]

the more wordly characters had at least heard of it in a historical context.

Although IIRC even Boromir didn't know that Isildur's Bane, which he had been warned of in prophetic dreams, was the fabled One Ring of Sauron, that everyone but the White Council* had thought was destroyed when Sauron's army was destroyed in the Last Alliance.

* the White Council was made up of, IIRC, Saruman, Gandalf, Radagast, the other 2 unnamed wizards, Elrond, Galadriel, Cirdan the Shipwright, and I dunno who else. Never found any indication of their jurisdiction, but when anyone mentions "The Wise", they generally mean these guys.

In the movie (I can't recall in the books) Elrond knew very well that the ring had not been destroyed. He was there, after all, when the strength of men failed.

By the way, wasn't it a lovely bit of lighting when they made Frodo look so much like Isildur at the cracks of Doom?

Yes, what I meant was that the White Council knew the Ring was lost, not destroyed. But everyone else except the very well-educated thought it was destroyed.

The same way no one knew there was still an heir to the throne of Gondor, really...

Got back online. Just caught up.

Thought re: Faramir. IIRC, he was, in the books, supposed to be of the Fellowship, right? Had that been the case, none of the Fellowship would have given in to the Ring (except Frodo at the end). Which has that nice fated-to-be aroma that so much of the plot depends on.

In the future, after 1 viewing of the complete EE, I will end the film after the reuntion scene in Frodo's room. The rest just irks. YIrkMV (obviously)

About that scene, Frodo thought he was dead, right? And Gandalf was laughing at that?

wrt the quiz, I am Samwise and his Insomnia, but then, I knew that.

When/if it becomes an issue for people, do you plan to have your children know the books or the movies first? It's one of those things I think about (like the proper order for watching Star Wars, only not so much now, as I don't give a ::colourful Chinese expletive:: about SW anymore)

In the books nobody knows squat about it

Well, not exactly. The hobbits were totally ignorant, but the more wordly characters had at least heard of it in a historical context.

Yeah, I realized my summation was perhaps not technically correct, but I was being glib, so I ran with it.

When/if it becomes an issue for people, do you plan to have your children know the books or the movies first?

Books. Definitely books. Not that I'll likely have children, but if I did, I'd probably read the story to them as young children, then let them watch the movies once they were a little older.

Kind of a moot point with us, I s'poze. Our daughter's been watching the DVDs with us since she was born. Of course, that was just 4 months ago, so I don't know if she's really picked up on any discrepancies between them and the books we're reading to her yet.

Kee-rist.

Woke up too early, so I went to look through the RotK stuff on my TiVo. Some talks shows -- I'd never felt the Elijah love, really, but he's a cutie. Renewed my devotion to Sir Ian -- he was the actor I knew best going in, and I'm beyond delighted that the same guy from Gods and Monsters, the first openly gay Knight is both Magneto and Gandalf.

And then ... the chills. Why can the clips still make me shiver? I got up in irritation because the Biography Extra showed Mippin at Amon Hen, and I cried. It's way too early to cry. I need to watch RotK stat.

I was trying to work out which line summed up the most of the movie to me, the bits that get me the most -- and I think, although Frodo himself doesn't ping me that much, that the line for me is "I will take the ring to Mordor ... although I do not know the way."

It's the hobbit wandering into the fray, not so much for the saving of the world, but with the recognition that something larger, something grasped by the other races is at stake. It's got more than a little of the "well, there seems to be a simple solution to this -- let's go" to it, which is so weighted down over the next few movies with the awarenesses they're not supposed to go.

They're not children. They don't need to grow up. But they do.