she has to save the world,

That's a flaw?

I haven't read Incubus Dreams yet, but I remember Anita getting called on agonizing over her own stuff in Blue Moon when there were people who needed saving. Something along the lines of: You're not upset over being a monster. You're upset because you're acting like a monster and you don't feel appropriately guilty about it. Get a grip and save the person in distress already.

And in Narcissus in Chains she a) came damn close to eating Jason (in the non-fun, carnivorous sense) and b) tried to cover it by saying that hey, he saw everyone as food, too. Which he has never seemed to do, in spite of being a werewolf.

Basically, she's had trouble owning her own shit, while still being judgemental about that of others. Maybe this has changed in ID -- I hope so.

You're not upset over being a monster. You're upset because you're acting like a monster and you don't feel appropriately guilty about it. Get a grip and save the person in distress already.

Jason rocks.

Basically, she's had trouble owning her own shit, while still being judgemental about that of others. Maybe this has changed in ID -- I hope so.

She's at least recognizing that she's a judgemental twit, I think. Maybe I've gotten jaded, but this is the first book in which the sex seemed like an organic part of the story and serving some other cause than titillation, to me.

Is she recognizing it? I may start reading them again. I gave up on them because of the refusal of the author to deeply (or even mildly) analyze any of the issues that would make a character claim to be deeply Catholic, a necromancer, able to blow away human-looking things with a big gun, and interested in fucking two non-humans all at the same time.

Mary Sue is a great term, and I tend to apply it to both male and female characters, but I tend to define it as a comic-book-style (in fact, DC-style) superhero in a shades-of-grey novel world. Sometimes it can be relaxing to read a book, especially fantasy, where the good guys are all good, the bad guys are all bad, and the hero(ine) is perfecter than life. In other books and at other times, it doesn't work, and seems like a dishonest or non-creative choice by the writer, and that's when I apply the term.

I do agree with Nutty, though - John Carter of Mars isn't called a Mary Sue, but were he female (even in that black-and-white series) he would be.

I've been going though the embassy's lending library, which is basically the Book-of-the-Month Club, ca. 1980. I just read almost all of the Fafhrd/Gray Mouser stories, more or less in order of writing. Did it seem to anyone else that Leiber pulled a Heinlein and towards the end of his writing career spent more time on soft-core porn and women with shaven "privies" than on adventure? Not that I mind, it's been a long time since I read any soft-core porn in a fantasy novel...

spent more time on soft-core porn and women with shaven "privies" than on adventure?

So that's why Hubby won't let me throw out his very old, worn copies of the books.

Honestly, when I read "shaven privies," I thought, "How the hell do you shave an outhouse?"

Did it seem to anyone else that Leiber pulled a Heinlein and towards the end of his writing career spent more time on soft-core porn and women with shaven "privies" than on adventure? Not that I mind, it's been a long time since I read any soft-core porn in a fantasy novel...

Really? Geez, it's been more than 20 years since I read any of those books. I don't remember (or don't think I do) Leiber's descent into Heinleinism, but I do remember thinking that there was a decline in quality in the later books. I'm sure my younger self would have been alert to the privie talk so perhaps a refresh is in order, if I can find the damned books.

Mary Sue is a great term, and I tend to apply it to both male and female characters, but I tend to define it as a comic-book-style (in fact, DC-style) superhero in a shades-of-grey novel world.

Except for Big Blue, the dudes of DC are pretty damned flawed and often wrong.

It's part of their charm.

interested in fucking two non-humans all at the same time.

Oh, if it were only two. Two would be monogamy for the new, improved Anita, now with extra ardeur.

Well, mostly two, or three. But no more than 6, I'm sure.