The funny part is, I always found the romantic elements interspersed in the Vorkosigan novels to be the least realistic parts of them. (Okay, some of the Mark sections beat them out, but Mark is only in a couple of novels.) It's all a little too perfect and a little too neat, you know? The rape is narrowly averted; attractions between protagonists are never not reciprocated; nobody ever has screaming fights over stupid things like the toilet seat.

I can see this a little, in A Civil Campaign. But this is also something that I find in many Romance novels, so it's actually one of the things that made me see ACC as both SF and Romance. In the earlier Miles V. books, he did have a lot of romantic trouble. One woman of his dreams wouldn't have been caught dead living on his planet; another falls in love with one of his subordinates and decides never to go back to his planet (and never does fall for him). For that matter, Elena is the product of a rape very much not averted, and her mother's "reunion" with her father was very much not one of those "You raped me but it turns out we have true love so it's ok" situations that turned me off reading Harliquens at around 13. A Civil Campaign was in some ways the Marry 'Em Off book of the series, but Mark's relationship with his lover remained unconventional (as did Alys and her lover's affair) and Ivan couldn't find a serious relationship with both hands and a roadmap.

And you know, I'd completely blanked on Diplomatic Immunity until you mentioned it. I was referring to A Civil Campaign in my other post, and it wasn't her latest in the series. Ah well.

I just read Elizabeth Marie Pope's The Perilous Gard a few days ago, and thought it was very successful as a blend of fantasy/historical romance. Clean, crisp writing, a wonderful heroine, and skillful world-building, with enough ambiguity to allow both fantastical and non-fantasy explanations. I think it might have been targeted for YA audience, but it was miles better than most adult-oriented romances I've read that tried something similar.

I've heard good things about these, but haven't gotten around to them myself.

Re: Liaden: Susan, I gotta warn you, I found them not to my taste. They're just a bit too much with the perfection. Everyone's a Mary Sue, in that they're all idealized, terribly attractive, witty, smart, athletic, talented, a prodigy, and so forth. Even their flaws are the attractive kind: stubborn, resistant to authority, blah blah blah. I read two and decided that the quality of the writing and the world-building wasn't nearly high enough to keep me from wanting to throttle them all.

They came highly recommended by friends online as comfort reads, but I fear I'm out of the target window for them. Much like I would be for, say, Anne McCaffrey or Mercedes Lackey now. t shrugs YBMV, of course. But I'd rather use the time to reread Mary Gentle.

That's one of my favorite books of all time, Vonnie.

Mine too!

I ordered Perilous Gard from Amazon last week, after reading the same discussion you did, Vonnie. (Darn my LJ flist!) Looking forward to reading it, although I have a bunch more ahead of it on the tbr list, including the huge Susanna Clarke novel currently slounging on my couch.

Me three on The Perilous Gard.

Pope also wrote The Sherwood Ring, which isn't quite as good, but has wonderful American Revolution-era ghosts in it.

That's one of my favorite books of all time, Vonnie.

Isn't Kate marvellous? But totally not in that annoying, too-good-to-be-true Mary Sue way. What a refreshing heroine.

I ordered Perilous Gard from Amazon last week, after reading the same discussion you did, Vonnie. (Darn my LJ flist!)

Folks on our LJ Flists are way too well-read than is good for my wallet, if you ask me. My TBR pile is reaching a scary leaning-tower-of-Pisa-like proportion. I think you'll like The Perilous Gard, which is a quick read, but invites revisitations. I've already re-read sections of the book, including the ending, which is evocative and satisfying and really... just perfect. Sigh.

I'll also have you know that I've finally started on The Game of Kings. The sheer length (let alone the number of volumes) of the books has daunted me for a while, but I think I'm in the right frame of mind now to give them a go. Lymond... err, makes an impression, doesn't he? I haven't gotten to any of the really angsty parts yet, and so far, he's proving to be entertainingly immoderate.

Lymond... err, makes an impression, doesn't he?

He does that. Not always a good one. *g*

If you've read Lord Peter Wimsey or Bujold or, hell, AJ Hall, you'll recognize the type.

Keep plowing through until you hit the page-200 mark. By that point the plot should be enough to keep you going the rest of the way, I find.

For that matter, Elena is the product of a rape very much not averted,

I thought of that. But the method of storytelling was, (1) Barrayar, where the rape is averted; (2) skip ahead 20 years and retro-discuss a rape that wasn't. Sort of defuses its power as a topic, don't you think? Especially because the revelation of the crime and the death of the criminal sit cheek by jowl in the narrative. It's a thing soap operas do -- reveal who the rapist is, and have him die immediately -- I think because it's too complicated and murky to deal with the long-term emotional consequences of rape in the course of a fast-paced story. You'll note that neither rape victim nor perpetrator was a viewpoint character, or signified in the plot much at all aside from that one event.

One woman of his dreams wouldn't have been caught dead living on his planet; another falls in love with one of his subordinates and decides never to go back to his planet (and never does fall for him).

Elena's the only woman he doesn't sleep with, right? Except various parental figures, and the ones that die. Like, he gets it on with the wolfy woman, for crying out loud, and the villain-woman uses her sex against him, and there is no point at which a reasonable, normal, non-villainous woman says, "No, Miles, I'm just indifferent to you."

I mean, okay, he is a hero, but even heroes get sawed off at the knees from time to time. I just think that the sexual aspects tend to come off a little too nicely, whereas the violence -- brain damage, death, the effects of torture -- are explored in a gret deal more depth.