Hagrid needs defending by the people around him, and Samwise doesn't. That's the huge differentiation for me.

Sure, they're both loyal. They're also both male. I got nothing against faithful retainers. It's the simplicity of Hagrid that bothers me.

Dumbledore (and others) have realized that Hagrid's priorities are not as valueless as most would think.

That's how you tell the bad guys from the good. I dunno. He's written as woobie, which is another thing I think Samwise wasn't.

He makes fewer mistakes/bad choices with animals than a lot of the other teachers do with their chosen subjects.

Really? Other than the divination teacher, who's an out and out flake, and textually mocked, whose classes go worse?

whose classes go worse

Lockhart's Defense Against the Dark Arts classes weren't paragons of effectiveness.

And if Draco had followed instructions, Buckbeak wouldn't have tried to munch him.

Lockhart's Defense Against the Dark Arts classes weren't paragons of effectiveness.

True.

But I feel that Hagrid's ineffectiveness is supposed to endear him to me, and ... why? It's like I'm supposed to react to his situation, and from where I'm standing, part of it is that he means well. Snape doesn't mean well, so when things go wrong we're not to feel for him. We're not called on to be empathic for the Divination teacher either. Just dear, simple, Hagrid.

if Draco had followed instructions, Buckbeak wouldn't have tried to munch him

Absolutely. There was naivete on Hagrid's part that contributed to that ... which is kinda my point.

I just don't get the vibe that Hagrid is responsible and effective and an agent. He's continually being reassured and rescued by the kids, in not a very adult way -- he's less adult than them, in ways.

Which fits with, in my eyes, the trope I think he belongs to, which is in no way a British one.

I tend to agree with ita that Hagrid is dependent in a way different from the Samwise/servant mold, and it's in his naive mistakes (and the way people rescue him from same) that it shows.

I don't think it's really a Magical Negro type of thing, either, because Hagrid doesn't have a moral lesson to impart per se.

I guess he is sort of like an extremely incompetent Uncle Buck? We're supposed to love him but not respect him -- of all the adults, he has the most emotional relationship with the children, and I think that's because the children see him as equal (or even lesser).

Who's Uncle Buck?

the children see him as equal (or even lesser).

I agree.

I'm guessing you meant to post that somewhere else...

Oops, sorry. I was sure I was posting to the Angel thread last night. In fact, this thread isn't even among my subscriptions, so I'm not quite sure how I managed the mistake.

I hope my work computer doesn't get a crush on me or start telling co-workers to electrocute me in the bathroom.

Who's Uncle Buck?

Wossname, John Candy. Big goofy uncle to a brood of children, does things like make grilled cheese sandwiches using a clothes iron and generally allows children to run riot due to genial cluelessness and slovenliness. The movie came out, when? middle 80s. And IIRC was Macauley Culkin's debut.

Uncle Buck was the main character in an eponymous film starring John Candy, which I have never seen.

Oh, that sounds gross.

Though I've now recast HP with Candy as Hagrid. It's interesting.

Who's Uncle Buck?

(1989)

"You've got a lot of hair in your nose."

"Thanks for noticing."

"That's my job, I'm a kid."

Worthless loser uncle connects with disaffected niece in dysfunctional family. Candy was great and elevated the movie out of mediocre for me.

He was in that rich run of form that lasted until his untimely death. Planes, trains and automobiles (1987) is probably my favourite Candy movie.