Dudes, you have GOT to see the miniseries. There has never been anything quite like it. I mean, ever. Period. It's fucking brilliant and totally nuts and the scene in which John Hurt's barking mad Caligula reaches out and kisses his grandmother Livia goodnight - with one hand on her breast and his tongue down her throat and Sian Phillips' eyes (she played Livia) going wide with shock, because Hurt hadn't told her he'd be doing it - oh, lordy, lordy.

I know. My mother has kindly forced her boxed set on us. They have the coffee table book on it. They're quite the fans.

I think I am the weird person who had LESS trouble reading Ulyssess (though I did read it for a class in Irish Renaissance Literature) than Watership Down.

The advantage I had for Ulyssess was that it was the professors thesis topic, and he had written his own guide. I liked the gude almost better than the book. For me the pleasure of Ulysses was the pleasure of analysis rather than just the pleasure of reading. It was like digging for buried treasure, finding all the referances.

Also, I never have finished Watership Down.

I think I am the weird person who had LESS trouble reading Ulyssess (though I did read it for a class in Irish Renaissance Literature) than Watership Down.

Ulysses (probably Joyce generally, and very possibly -- at the risk of overgeneralizing -- much Modernism) would probably benefit from being read in class, or with some other guide.

Unfortunately, Deb, Connie was asking about Hamlet. *g*

Ah! For a second, I thought Deb was talking about Brannagh's Hamlet, and I was terribly sad that she would now have to be dead to me. But his Henry V's a whole nother thing.

For film versions of Hamlet, I like the Almereyda (Ethan Hawke) one, because it got this:

of course, the play itself needed an editor, I thought (waits to be struck by lightning for heresy).

exactly right. It strips the play down to its bare bones and truly adapts it, instead of just dressing its actors up in period outfits and slapping itself on the back for doing such an Important Shakespeare Play.

My upbringing is such that I've seen a lot of Hamlets, but all strung together on a bizarro "Greatest Hits of the English Department" video, just the highlight scenes and with several versions in a row. Derek Jacobi's Hamlet had extremely 70s hair, and wore tights. (I think there was also a Nicol Williamson Hamlet, but I disremember.)

The problem is, when you're used to the highlight reel, the whole play is unbelieveably dull. Also, the highlight reel tends to cut out all but the best parts of Hamlet puttering around being insecure -- and frankly, if I didn't know he is destined to die, I'd kill him myself, just to stop with the irritating worry. It bothers me that the play could be only 15 minutes long (and probably not count as a tragedy), if Hamlet weren't such a worrywart. That's just not my kind of play, I guess.

My favorite Richard III was "Looking for Richard", which explained a lot to me, what with the actors saying "My motivation is...". Also had the nice effect of cutting out the slow parts.

Shakespeare has a lot of slow parts, doesn't he? Or, he doesn't tend to transmit plot information in a very efficient manner; it's rare I would cut entire scenes, but given my druthers I'd cut a lot of lines in each scene.

The funny thing about Henry V is that neither of the famous versions includes the part where Heroic Hal orders all of his French prisoners executed in revenge. Makes it a much more ambiguous play, you know? Harder to lionize war when even the good guy is a wanton butcher.

And I hated the film versions, as well, because the historian in me can't stomach the carricature.

really? I quite liked the one set in the 30's with Ian McKellan.

I loved Brannagh's Henry V to bits. Never saw Olivier's. When it comes to Hamlet I've yet to see a version that I can wholeheartedly love. In Mel Gibson's version, well, the problems are right there in front of you. But Helena Bonhem Carter did the best Ophelia I've ever seen. I liked Brannagh's portrayl of Hamlet, but I think someone else should have directed the movie, preferably someone who could sit on KB's enormous ego every 5 minutes or so.

My favorite WS play is The Tempest. The High Point (NC) Shakespeare Festival put on a wonderful version several years ago -- period clothes and very, very minimalist sets. I just fell into the play and came up gasping a few hours later. But I'm still waiting for a decent movie version. I'd love to see Ian McKellan as Prospero, but he might be kind of tired of wizard types by now.

really? I quite liked the one set in the 30's with Ian McKellan.

Me too. It's totally sweet.

My favorite WS play is The Tempest.

I've tried to figure out what's so great about this play, and I can't. I've read it once and seen it performed by the Actors from the London Stage, but it still doesn't do an exceeding amount for me. It's so meanderingly plotless.

I think my favorite tragedy is Lear, because it has like fifty thousand character arcs. And eye-gouging. For comedies, I think I go with Much Ado, which also has a great Branagh movie.

You really need to spend a weekend with Jen chatting up all the dark twisty corners of Wm. Shakespeare.

Yes please.

Somehow, I think Shakespeare might be the last thing on our minds... IJS.

Damn, damn, damn. Missed a lot of the Hamlet/Henry V movie discussion, but it's not like I have anything new. I bloody well hate Branagh's movie with the fury of a thousand suns. 5 million points from Gryffindor, indeed.

For film versions of Hamlet, I like the Almereyda (Ethan Hawke) one, because it got this

Really? See, my mother, myself, and Zach sat down to watch it one day, and we were painfully bored by the time Laertes is setting off. To the point where my mother asked if we could shut it off, which was a first.

I love that everyone was is talking about R&G. Has anyone else seen Stoppard's Dogg's Hamlet/Cahoot's MacBeth? Bloody brilliant, and it does have Hamlet in 15 minutes. And then Hamlet in 90 seconds for an encore.

We are delving far into Richard III right now, because Z is directing it next year and I'm the one who has the patience for the history plays.

The funny thing about Henry V is that neither of the famous versions includes the part where Heroic Hal orders all of his French prisoners executed in revenge. Makes it a much more ambiguous play, you know?

Yup.

My favorite WS play is The Tempest.

I've tried to figure out what's so great about this play, and I can't.

For me it's all about the language. I think this play is his most lyrical and beautifully written. I do agree that he wrote several other plays with more gripping plots.