Hey! What do you two think you're doing? Fightin' at a time like this. You'll use up all the air!

Jayne ,'Out Of Gas'


Firefly Spoilers  

Discussion of all Firefly episodes, including "Trash", "The Message", "Heart of Gold", and any movie news.


DCJensen - Aug 06, 2003 8:38:18 am PDT #425 of 1424
All is well that ends in pizza.

Mme du Pompadour

Heinlein had a character that had a doll named Mme du Pompadour. Cracked me up.


Fay - Aug 06, 2003 8:54:57 am PDT #426 of 1424
"Fuck Western ideologically-motivated gender identification!" Sulu gasped, and came.

Bloody good point about the Greek prostitutes -- I remember Sophocles left all his goods to his own Companion, and she was supposed to be hella intelligent, airc.

It's the ambassador part that loses me, the political influence

But that's a joke, isn't it? Mal's joke -- I've never heard Inara refer to herself as an ambassador.

In truth, based on Firefly canon, the ME folks haven't given us a very developed idea of what the Companion role is within the society -- or indeed a fully developed picture of the 'verse society. Which is entirely understandable and inevitable, given 13 episodes, and given that they're not making a documentary-style thing. I have no problem with the basic concept -- there are lots of precedents for sex workers having different kinds of status to those extant in 21st Century America.


CaBil - Aug 06, 2003 8:57:48 am PDT #427 of 1424
Remember, remember/the fifth of November/the Gunpowder Treason and Plot/I see no reason/Why Gunpowder Treason/Should ever be forgot.

Plus, society is a very fluid thing. We have been views into three seperate societies, the frontier worlds, Persephene and the Core. Seperating out which role fits into which society is also part of that.


Micole - Aug 06, 2003 9:00:34 am PDT #428 of 1424
I've been working on a song about the difference between analogy and metaphor.

While it is true that courtisans in France (and elsewhere), like the Greek hetaira, had no direct power, it is easy to see that they could sway entire nations and even history itself. Add this to the strong Sino-Japanese culture in the Core and the background of Geisha as an independant class unto themselves and the concept of Companions as persented becomes quite possible indeed.

But all of these classes--hetaira, high-class European courtesans, and geisha--existed only in conditions of extreme gender inequality. They contained ambitious women exercised power indirectly because their cultures allowed them no opportunity to exercise it directly.

What many of us question is how and why such a class should exist in a society which otherwise shows markers of gender equality: women exercise power (Patience and the Counsellor who was Inara's client), serve in the armed forces, and perform roles traditionally restricted to men in societies with well-defined gender roles. Sometimes the societies are as casually sexist and misogynist as they are in traditional Westerns (eg, "Heart of Gold"), but even if you assume that the border is more sexist than the core (in itself a stereotype of Westerns that is not supported by American history), the Companion role depends that gender inequality existing in the core.


Frankenbuddha - Aug 06, 2003 9:02:04 am PDT #429 of 1424
"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"

Because of the hairstyle, Ken?

Yup. I figured it was named for her, but it still looks absurd, like Col. Condom.


DCJensen - Aug 06, 2003 9:18:57 am PDT #430 of 1424
All is well that ends in pizza.

the Companion role depends that gender inequality existing in the core.

I'm not sure that because these things existed in inequal cultures they can only exist in them.

However, even a gender equitable society does not eliminate the wants needs, and desires of humans. It apparently has not gotten rid of jealousy, low self worth, the need for companionship, and other reasons to seek out a sex partner without the social dealings.

However, a free marketplace could produce a glut and poor policing of disease, and various other ills. So what to do? Start a brand name, shroud it in mysticism, sanctify the process.

By elevating the Companion™ Brand, they created an organized self-contained policing system, and provided the customers with a sense of trust in that brand.


Fay - Aug 06, 2003 9:35:07 am PDT #431 of 1424
"Fuck Western ideologically-motivated gender identification!" Sulu gasped, and came.

How do we feel about it all if Companions are both male and female, and service both male and female clients? With the male Companions having the same level of opportunity for promotion as the female ones?


Griffyn - Aug 06, 2003 9:36:57 am PDT #432 of 1424
A person's concepts should exceed their vocabulary, or what's a metaphor?

And why do we even assume that all Companions are female? Because the two (1 and a half?) we've seen are female? Who says there's not a number of Houses within the Guild made up entirely of men?

ETA: X-postly goodness with Fay.


Micole - Aug 06, 2003 9:51:26 am PDT #433 of 1424
I've been working on a song about the difference between analogy and metaphor.

We assume Companions are female and their clientele are largely male because all the Companions we've seen have been female, the only references we've heard to training Companions were to sisters or daughters, and the only one we've had much exposure to had a largely but not exclusively male clientele.

The whorehouse had a few male whores, but Nandi and Inara explicitly stated the whores were not Companions, repeatedly.


Micole - Aug 06, 2003 10:00:22 am PDT #434 of 1424
I've been working on a song about the difference between analogy and metaphor.

Serial: I'm not nearly as unhappy about the whole thing as Nutty, mainly because I don't think the problem is really sexist blinkers at ME so much as thoughtlessness. My take is that they picked a bunch of genres--western, regency for Shindig, and ... other stuff i'm forgetting--where tropes depend on gender inequality, tried to set them in a world of gender equality, and didn't think about the problems they'd have.

But all the explanations people have been offering about how Companions might actually work require really elaborate explanations that may not be directly contradicted by the text, but that are not supported by more than minimal and contradictory textual clues, either.