Hec, was that little snark aimed at me? Because I prefer to be addressed by name if someone's trying to snark me.

Misha, I even know how to spell your name at this point. If I wanted your attention in particular, I'd let you know.

It was just the gleefulness in the review wanting to tear down Joss. A pre-reveling in the movie's perceived failure.

I don't even really have a fully formed opinion of the movie after only seeing the screening last spring. My initial impression was that the movie would only place in the middle of my personal Firefly ranking. For me, it wasn't nearly as good as "Out of Gas," or "Objects in Space" or "War Stories," or "Serenity." It was probably about as good as "Ariel" or "The Message" (which I liked better than a lot of people).

Unlike Strega, plot failures don't bug me that much as long as I get the Talky that Kristen alluded too. I got enough Jossy goodness there to entertain me, though I'd agree with her that he's had better efforts. I got my money's worth of fun out of it, anyway.

Ultimately, I don't know how you can make a two hour movie that maintains the continuity of a 13 hour series, and is also completely self-sustained. That seems (to me) like an almost impossible writing task, unless you've got material like South Park where character development and arcs aren't a primary concern.

I think the movie will do okay. It'll certainly cover its expenses and probably make a little profit - it wasn't a huge investment to start with. I don't think it'll make boffo b.o. and turn into a phenomenon.

I've never felt the costume love, and, considering how thorougly I loathed that episode, "The Hero of Canton" will only ever happen in my presence when I am stuck in Hell listening to it forever.

My conclusion, based on the screening in June (and no evidence that the movie's been changed much since then), was that it was a very Jossy movie, and was better than I had expected, based on how much I disliked the X-Files movie, but that it still wasn't that good a movie.

Entertaining, yes. But I could feel the plot skimming over logic, carefully avoiding the complicating details that only occur to one as one is on the way home, an hour later. There were a lot of false notes, some of them false despite my recognizing them as signature Joss, and the basic self-righteous Suddenly I Am Karen Silkwood-ness of the final reel was kind of -- lame.

Because it was a whizbang movie, I enjoyed it while it was happening. Because it was Joss's whizbang movie, I expected more than just whizbang and was left unsatisfied.

considering how thorougly I loathed that episode

Heh. Hec and I watched that very episode last night, and were snickering mightily at the Ben Edlundness of it all, and we spent this morning tottering around the kitchen, clutching at each other and going all cow-eyed and wobbly-lipped and saying, "You had a riot? For me?"

"The Hero of Canton" will only ever happen in my presence when I am stuck in Hell listening to it forever

No hell for Nutty. I decree it (eta: decree it even in spite of your Edlund!Firefly hate), and so shall it be, even if I have to spring you out (or both of us out, as may be).

Thats' okay. I'm an atheist. I don't believe in Hell. Unless you are talking about the Red Line on Monday morning, when it is packed and people don't understand how their elbows have mass and are pointy and the only way it could be worse is if those people were Geraldo Rivera.

I think the movie will do okay. It'll certainly cover its expenses and probably make a little profit - it wasn't a huge investment to start with. I don't think it'll make boffo b.o. and turn into a phenomenon.

I'm betting, just based on reaction to the trailer, that it's going to do pretty solid b.o.the first weekend, possibly better than that, and then maybe have a huge drop-off. Second week figures will be interesting.

It will also be interesting to see if the sales of the DVDs go up in the next few weeks.

Thats' okay. I'm an atheist. I don't believe in Hell. Unless you are talking about the Red Line on Monday morning, when it is packed and people don't understand how their elbows have mass and are pointy and the only way it could be worse is if those people were Geraldo Rivera.

The Red Line is purgatory - it's the Green Line (specifically B) that is the 9th circle, especially after a Red Sox game. You've assumed the role of Judas in Dante's vision if it's Sox/Yankees.

I guess I should have spoken up more when we were in agreement.

Oh, no, it's cool. Attempting to be more coherent now will lead to some complicated "I thought that you thought that I said that..." thing, but hate was probably too strong a word. I thought I'd seriously annoyed you a few times, and was happy when I understood that it wasn't a permanent level of annoyance.

Anyway. I guess the only other thing I wanted to say is that bile is never necessary, but it is often a fun bonus.

In true paranoid fashion, I've been scrolling through the showthreads to see if I'd made some horribly insulting complaint about your TWOP recaps that I didn't recall. I think the post I made in the Angel 3 thread on Oct 7, 2003 sums up my general response pretty well.

Reading over-the-top negative reactions to entertainment tends to be fun for me. At least the reviewer is passionate, y'know? Though when the hatred is channeled as personal insults about the creator rather than their work it can get a bit uncomfortable—that bit about corporate yes-men and baloon heads struck me as crossing the line.

Oops- hit the wrong button. Now then.

I find some of the recent discussion pretty interesting. This whole Kool-Aid thing I think is a bit unfair. For many people Joss and/or Firefly is the home team and they are rooting for the home team. When the Red Sox play the Yankees and Schilling tosses a 13 stirke out 3 hit performances not too many people are saying, "gotta give it to him he pitched well." More likely they are letting him have it. When it comes to reviews I feel you should always consider the source. Anyone with a website can post a review doesn't make their opinion any more credible than mine or anyone elses.

I think most reviews contradict themselves. There were a fair amount of constraints with this particular story. In many ways it was similar to what X-Men faced. X-Men was made in 2000 for $75 million and was 1 hour and 44 minutes. Serenity was made 5 years later for less money ($40 million) and comes in at 1 hour 59 minutes. Even if you attribute some of the X-Men money to cast anyway you slice it Serenity does more with less. Like X-Men, Serenity was a known quanity from a different medium that had to be reintroduced on film. Serenity had 9 characters that needed to be represented from Firefly. It's inevitable that someone's favorite character would settle into the background. That comes like Trekkies who complain that Dr.Crusher doesn't do anything in the The Next Generation films. Still I feel each character was represented well and they truly do get their moment to shine. Take Kaylee for example. When the Mule returns the first person she shows concern for is Simon. She stands up to Mal when River and Simon leave. She's upset when they do. In a few moments the essence of who Kaylee was from the show is established. There also is a Kaylee/Simon payoff in the end. Even Jayne grows. Jayne the mercenary who fights at the end for a noble cause for no personal gain. It's Jayne who's concerned if they were successful. "If you can't do something smart, do something right."

Going to cut it off here and talk a little bit about plot.