No, the actual movement declined to propagate itself in the major media, contracting and going further underground. Unless you actually own copies of the zine Girl Germs you've probably never seen the actual movement.

Yep. Conscious rejection of the media, actually.

Lot of cool ideals, when I think about it. Just... lot of other stuff got in the way, as always.

Sorry ita, Just fanwanking there. I had planned to put a smiley next to it.

I actually do not recall if it was or not.

Unless you actually own copies of the zine Girl Germs you've probably never seen the actual movement.

So, yeah. I'm back to the part where, how can something be of the zeitgeist if it's not available widely? Or do you mean zeitgeist only for particular cities, or regions? (This works a lot better in France, where everyone looks to Paris as their cultural cluster.)

My general thinking is that an item cannot practically qualify for "zeitgeist" unless it is already inextricably bound into the system of cultural production. Not that there is an inherent economic aspect of every item of the zeitgeist (although, god knows, a lot of it comes from advertising), but I don't see how it can be the "spirit of the times" until such time as a vast number of people, nationwide, are thinking about it. That involves production and distribution and marketing and sales, on the national level, of whatever medium is transmitting this new idea.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the Big Machines of culture being the conduit of ideas and attitudes and the cultural products where I make my psychological home. It sounds like these riot grrl people were politically opposed to major distribution of their stuff (for "stuff" see agenda, songs, style, whatever), so they disqualified themselves, consciously, from being what I would call zeitgeist.

I agree with Nutty -- it's hard to be general or pervasive if you don't have a good meme vector. I've heard of the Riot Grrls, and am pretty sure I couldn't define them without offending a bunch of people. It's not been a descriptor of anything I've been, or been near.

I'm back to the part where, how can something be of the zeitgeist if it's not available widely?

My general thinking is that an item cannot practically qualify for "zeitgeist" unless it is already inextricably bound into the system of cultural production. Not that there is an inherent economic aspect of every item of the zeitgeist (although, god knows, a lot of it comes from advertising), but I don't see how it can be the "spirit of the times" until such time as a vast number of people, nationwide, are thinking about it. That involves production and distribution and marketing and sales, on the national level, of whatever medium is transmitting this new idea.

Nutty and I (edit: and ita) have the same concept of "zeitgeist."

Sorry ita, Just fanwanking there. I had planned to put a smiley next to it.

Whoa, Daniel. You've been watching fandom shows too long, man. Good wanking there, and you were just kidding around? I think if I ran all of Smallville through that fanwank filter you got there, I might find the show watchable on more than a "Hey look, shiny" level.

The Kents might have also depended on Clark to do a lot of farmwork, and without him they'd have to hire help that they couldn't afford.

When my book group did Snow Crash there was a whole debate about whether Y.T. was raped, since she herself didn't refer to it as a rape, just as the sex part of a date, so while she didn't really seem to want it to happen, she didn't really not want it to either. So she left her special device in place.

Just watched Smallville. It was a down comforter. I enjoied it more that I though I would. So , we are to assume Helen is evil, Ma and Pa Kent have forgotten about the dead baby, and Clark is a virgin.

can we just drop clark and lex on an island and have them chaseing each other around and eventually catching each other?

Actually -- I saw a possibility -- for Clark to actually learn to chose good. and not listen to Jonathan's ideas of right and wrong which are skewed.

can we just drop clark and lex on an island and have them chaseing each other around and eventually catching each other?

yes please.with oil.

oil , chocolate sauce, maybe some whipped cream whatever works