You speak true of Sam. I didn't know until I'd seen half the eps or so that Bill Macy and Felicity Huffman are married.

Also wordity word on the Dating Plan

Anyway, I can see Abyss-Daniel as an extension of real traits he's always had, and showed more and more as the series went on. He always thinks he knows best. It's not unusual for him to choose abstract over personalized morality - look at Scorched Earth, where he's willing to advance the argument that maybe the folks on the ground should be left to die because the germ cells in the sky are the last of their kind, and gee, they're awfully *advanced*, aren't they?

It's really interesting cause I saw the thing with Scorched Earth as Jack tending to be pretty humanocentric, favouring the right to live for guys who look like him. And the protectiveness thing of course, the people on the ground were people he was responsible for.

You've made me think. My profound loathing of Abyss is much more a thing with regard to TV in general, I just get so tired of every super-powerful group or individual that can remotely be considered good, being all Prime Directivey, even when there are superpowerful bad guys intervening for all their worth. There are a ton of interesting things you can do with the super-powerful not evil or ambigiuos characters and every TV show seems to do the exact same thing.

But then Stargate actually has a pretty clear explanation of why these guys are freaked about intervening, so I could be being a little unfair.

Oooh. I saw Abyss at the start of my interest in SG1, and therefore understood nothing. I think it's on next week on local syndication.

I'm way curious now.

It's really interesting cause I saw the thing with Scorched Earth as Jack tending to be pretty humanocentric, favouring the right to live for guys who look like him. And the protectiveness thing of course, the people on the ground were people he was responsible for.

Oh, sure. (There's a story called "Meeting of Minds" out there - I don't know if you read fanfic - that brings back the Gadmeer, and spends some time talking about that kind of we-like-mammals-best issue.) On the other hand, you know, they don't really exist anymore - they're little cells, not actual, living beings. So I tend to come down on Jack's side there.

There are a ton of interesting things you can do with the super-powerful not evil or ambigiuos characters

No, I get the frustration. On the other hand, you can't really tell interesting stories when you've got a real deus to appear ex machina at the end of every episode, so I tend to chalk that one up to storytelling necessity. (Kind of like the "Buffy cannot reveal her secret identity!" issue we've been discussing in the Buffy topic.)

I'm way curious now.

I'll be interested to see what you think. I had a very different reaction to it once I was familiar with the characters (particularly Jack).

But super-powerful, not *all*-powerful don't necessarily have to be a deus. That's how come comic writers can tell stories at all.(Although it does work better if the characters don't have too many super powers. In my book any decent story involving Adult Superman is a miracle cause he has so many powers I can't remember them all!)

Mind you, the more I talk about this, the more I realise my issues aren't necessarily with the Asended Guys, so much as combined frustration. Buffy's actually another series where this drives me nuts, I don't see why they even mention there is a good side, the amount of help they've been.

Oh, and yeah, I read fanfic. Haven't read that story though, would you mind giving me a link?

Oh, and yeah, I read fanfic. Haven't read that story though, would you mind giving me a link?

Sure. Here you go: Meeting of Minds.

You speak true of Sam. I didn't know until I'd seen half the eps or so that Bill Macy and Felicity Huffman are married.

Now you have me thinking of my new favourite show Out of Order, with the above and Eric Stoltz and Kim Dickens and Justine Bateman.

Anyone else watching that?

maybe the folks on the ground should be left to die because the germ cells in the sky are the last of their kind, and gee, they're awfully *advanced*, aren't they?

Well, wait, now... I mean, it was a real moral crisis, but it wasn't actually "the super-evolved but technically dead alien things or the friendly earth-type people we're responsible for DIE!" The people could have gone back through the Stargate and relocated... again. Perhaps all going blind in the process. Which sucks, yes, but there was an alternative. As usual, it was an extremely difficult situation which SG handled... by having people take extremely simplistic sides. Argh. And the ending... yeah. Ass pull... to the X-TREME! But, eh.

Yeah, I just saw the woman-in-ice episode last weekend, and... what the fuck? Not only was it a crappy episode, the main plot of which was essentially Outbreak on a very small scale and really didn't need that woman there at all -- the same function could have been served by a box of some kind -- but they brought up some seriously weird issues, and totally abandoned them.

"Oh, look, humans were around millions of years before... humans were around. And they looked quite a lot like Caucasian supermodels. Plus, there's this totally ridiculous freezing thing, but just never mind that for a... oh hey, we're all sick! Better put aside the whole complete upheaval of things we know as fact about our species until this is over and -- oh damn, she's dead. Oh well. So I was thinking beige for the outer wall..."

But the plots all suck. Except the robot duplicates thing, that was cool. The point is the characters. It's just like Docter Who.

Most of the Star Trek plots suck nearly as badly but it matters more, cause you (or me, anyway) feel like you're supposed to take them seriously. Stargate's whole premise is that the pyramids are actually alien spacecraft.

the plots all suck

SG1? What's your frame of reference?