She didn't even touch her pumpkin. It's a freak with no face.

Willow ,'Help'


Atlantic Canadian Monday Madness  

[NAFDA] We used to get Buffy the day before everyone else, now we get Angel a week after everyone else. And Firefly every Monday!


Sophia Brooks - Feb 18, 2003 11:04:38 am PST #1492 of 6793
Cats to become a rabbit should gather immediately now here

And no Spike/Anya vibe. Anya sures seems lonely, though.

Yup. I really liked the non-vibe there, though!


Sophia Brooks - Feb 18, 2003 11:06:35 am PST #1493 of 6793
Cats to become a rabbit should gather immediately now here

"It's my bone!"

This is one of those things that make me wonder how the show can be on at 8 pm.

I also noticed (and I am not offended or anything). That they seem to be swearing more. I was so weirded out by "assface" and then it seemed like they were using a lot of low-level swear words this episode.


Laura - Feb 18, 2003 12:08:00 pm PST #1494 of 6793
Our wings are not tired.

I still think he said bassface.

Still in absorbing mode. Mmmm Spike. Yay Kennedy getting smacked down. More later..


victor infante - Feb 18, 2003 12:09:14 pm PST #1495 of 6793
To understand what happened at the diner, we shall use Mr. Papaya! This is upsetting because he's the friendliest of fruits.

I think maybe it was just an everybody being cranky moment.

That'show I took it.

I also thought that the Buffy's ourney to not-demon and Spike's journey back to himself were meant to be a parallel (obviously) but I couln't quite grasp of what-- Buffy refused and Spike didn't.

They're both beginning their journey back to balance within themselves. Buffy's been too much the Slayer...forgetting that her humanity has always been an assett. Spike's become far too human, forgetting that the beast has always been his.

Plus, Spike is Buffy's Jungian shadow self, so if one achieves balance of sorts, the other has to.


§ ita § - Feb 18, 2003 12:15:01 pm PST #1496 of 6793
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Buffy's been too much the Slayer...forgetting that her humanity has always been an assett

Has she? She's been running around being boss lady and yelling a lot, but it's more like she's been being Giles than anything inhuman.

She should have taken the damn power. All that "you're not doing anything!", and then she turns down a weapon, even though they have no idea what to do next.


Sue - Feb 18, 2003 12:23:56 pm PST #1497 of 6793
hip deep in pie

She should have taken the damn power. All that "you're not doing anything!", and then she turns down a weapon, even though they have no idea what to do next.

Yeah, I thought that too. I also thought one of the potentials should have stepped up and called her on her bitchiness. These girls are just dealing with death, let alone having to step up and be warriors.


Megan E. - Feb 18, 2003 1:05:32 pm PST #1498 of 6793

I also thought one of the potentials should have stepped up and called her on her bitchiness.

Kennedy did, but only when Buffy's comments were more geared toward Willow.


Jeff Mejia - Feb 18, 2003 3:35:42 pm PST #1499 of 6793
"Don't think of yourself as an organic pain collector racing towards oblivion." Dogbert to Dilbert

She should have taken the damn power. All that "you're not doing anything!", and then she turns down a weapon, even though they have no idea what to do next.

I think a key point to this comes from the line in "First Date" where Buffy says "you can't defeat evil by doing evil - I know that" or words to that effect. There is also still the rebellion against (male) authority that's being played out.

Yeah, I thought that too. I also thought one of the potentials should have stepped up and called her on her bitchiness. These girls are just dealing with death, let alone having to step up and be warriors.

I think the Giles' point last week really has hit home for Buffy, and Chloe's death just intensifies it. I think Buffy has decided that it's the sink or swim time now and she has no energy or time left to cushion the harsh reality of what's coming.


§ ita § - Feb 18, 2003 3:40:15 pm PST #1500 of 6793
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I'm glad Kennedy got stopped in her tracks. She was very much trying to bone herself into the inner circle, please to be excusing my egregious (wo)manhandling of metaphor.

She reminded me of the sort of chick that tried to sleep her way into improv groups. Pfft.

Spike! Spike's back! Go team headbangers!


PaulJ - Feb 18, 2003 3:53:07 pm PST #1501 of 6793

So... what's the consensus? Did people like it?

Personally I found it... well, there were good ideas, but overall the execution was terribly sloppy (and even subpar) in a lot of places. Like... the emergency box that nobody had mentioned in seven years of slaying? Asspull. Spike suddenly getting his duster "just because", so that the Principal can see him? Anvilicious asspull. And I know that in "Buffy" the monsters are supposed to be the McGuffin for the plot, but this episode just took that to new levels.

Okay, now I'm remembering what I wrote a couple of weeks ago about how the nitpicking only kicks in if you aren't into an episode emotionally, so I'll try to analyze where did the episode lose me and left me pondering things like, say, how did the cantonese slayer learn English in just one week.

Hrm. I suppose that the first thing I had a problem with was the Spike/Principal confrontation. I had expected the Principal to act more subtly at this stage, and instead we see him getting aggresive with Spike for no apparent reason (to Buffy, at least). The problem I had with that scene was that it was predictable: it was exactly what the worst hack in Hollywood would make the Principal do after last week's revelation.

Then we have Buffy not telling anyone about the true nature of the Principal, just so that they can play two or three lame jokes with Willow & Co. covering up when seeing him (at least we got a good line there: "bring it on!!" Kirsten Dunst as special guest playing a potential, anyone?). And then there was the training scene. Was it supposed to be this lame? Because I understand that it's a TV show, that it's shot under severe time constraints... but really. I didn't buy a moment of it.

And then there are the shadow puppets. Good concept... but again, run-of-the-mill execution (at least for me; it felt too rushed). And then, yet another glowy portal thingie opening up in the very normal-looking Summers' living room. I think this is the key: I just can't swallow that mix (living room + any supernatural stuff), it just break completely the suspension of disbelief for me.

The scenes of Buffy in the past? I had in my mind "Restless" during all that time... and obviously, the comparison didn't favor this episode. I understand that not every episode can look so visually stunning, but for something like the origin of the First Slayer, perhaps they could have tried a bit harder? Oh, and the CGI black goo looked ugly.

One last peeve: as scary as the final shot was, wouldn't it have been cooler if they hadn't revealed us what did Buffy see? Imagine the board going nuts with speculation! Plus, it would have fed more into the concept of the FE as something metaphysical, that cannot be fought with weapons and is more terrifying than any vampire or demon, instead of just the same monster that we already saw two months ago, only photocopied ad-infinitum.

So, what did I like about it? Well, Chloe's death and the FE using against Buffy her own words earlier in the day, and Buffy's subsequent anger (I don't think it was just grumpiness; I think her harsh reaction is going to tie in with her evolution during the rest of the season, and even with the final smackdown). Also, Kennedy's fear at discovering that there's more in Willow than meets the eye, though I had expected that two episodes earlier, when she tried to shoot her. And there's also Buffy's discovery that the three Shadow men created the first slayer against her will. Overall, though, the episode had too many of these sloppy, run-of-the-mill, least common denominator solutions for me to like it.