That would make sense, and then maybe they did some poking around to see what would create more of an effect. I don't remember the interview smoster, but it sounds resonable.

Also, I'm posting again so soon because, when Spike was reinsouled, it seemed like he lost a lot of oomph. Angel with a soul still had some character, while to me, Spike with a soul is just Buffy's Little Love Slave.

I don't think that Spike shouldn't have had the redemption option, I just think that they've told rather than shown, based on an assumption that's sketchy to begin with, if that makes sense.

I think this is the point that Plei has been trying to make forever, that is maybe not getting across as well as it should.

The problem is not whether Spike should be allowed redemption; it's not whether there's a difference between Souled!Spike and Unsouled!Spike; it's not whether Spike should be allowed to win back Buffy's heart AR or no AR.

The problem is that they haven't done any of those things.

The problem is that they've just had Spike come on the screen and say "I have a soul now, I am redeemed," and had Buffy go "okay."

This is telling. Not Showing.

This is what Plei (and I) have a beef with, both in this season, and in the development of the B/S storyline.

But it's true in the Buffyverse as well that a soul doesn't always make you good or do good. We've seen it with countless people.

But we've never seen a vampire who had a soul and was evil. Look at how Darla was changed by Connor's soul -- kind of reverse Fetal Alcohol Syndrome.

Yes, doing good deeds is a conscious choice. But there's a difference between "having a soul doesn't make you do good things" and "having a soul doesn't make you basically good." We can say the former but not the latter.

I do think the writers have done a bad job showing how the soul has changed Spike, and being consistent about it. But I don't think it's meaningless.

They showed quite a bit -- up until he actually got his soul. I mean, in Season 5 Buffy was already trusting him to care for her family, he withstood torture from Glory, the Scoobies trusted him to sit with Dawn when Buffy was dead -- then, when she was back, their relationships with him reverted back to quasi-Season 4 status, or seemed to because he was rarely shown interacting with anyone that wasn't Buffy.

As for White! Willow, I am so totally into it. Oh yeah.

Yeah. I said something like this last night, but it bears repeating.

I'm a big ol' sappy Willow-luvr, and Willow the White gives me a big happy that makes up for a lot of other bad this season.

Did anyone check out the official Buffy auction? I didn't get excited about anything they offered - plus people are bidding crazy, insane amounts!

checked it out briefly, rayne. i made a remark somewhere that my opinion and a thou still won't buy you one of smg's outfits from buffy.

is the money to try and keep upn afloat, or what? i hope it's going to a charity.

I'm standing in Plei and Sean's corner on the Spuffy issues, I agree there was not nearly enough showing. Which could have easily been remedied if they would have axed the countless useless storylines that popped in this season. But...ah, water, bridge.

I checked the auction as soon as i saw the promo for it. I was highly disappointed. I wanted some stuff from way past seasons. Like...I don't know, Faith's knife or something.

Come on

Boy, work sure gets in the way of posting. I thought the board was moving a bit slowly this morning, then wham! -- new thread.

Now I want Joss to write BtVS as a novel, complete with re-takes, re-dos and second thoughts. I'd like the basic story/season arcs to remain the same, but maybe played out a little differently.

That way could lead to the madness, such as George Lucas and his "Special Edition" Star Wars versions. IJS. (Han shot first, not Greedo!). /bitter

And the BBS, having been attacked by a pre-soul pre-chip post-conscience Spike, is deader than a thing which cannot be resurrected even by Joss and Tim combined.

Actually, that would have been Drusilla that took out the shopkeeper, not Spike. Spike was on the DL during "Passion". It was in season 3's "Lovers Walk" that Spike ate the shopgirl.

Edit: No, I take that back. They look a bit more like buffalo horns there. Goat horns would probably be most appropriate, though.

That begs the question -- what is the significance of buffalo horns, then? WE NEED TO KNOW! :-)

FWIW, I've always thought that the FE figure looked like a crab, but that's only in passing.