Nandi: I ain't her. Mal: Only people in this room is you and me.

'Heart Of Gold'


Buffy 4: Grr. Arrgh.  

This is where we talk about Buffy the Vampire Slayer! No spoilers though?if you post one by accident, an admin will delete it. This thread is NO LONGER NAFDA. Please don't discuss current Angel events here.


Matt the Bruins fan - Sep 01, 2004 7:29:07 am PDT #8841 of 10001
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand

I think Dru is the only female character who left the show and didn't die.

Amy, though she was admittedly a fairly minor recurring character.

Would that Kennedy had taken the place of one of the women who ended up leaving via bodybag.


Topic!Cindy - Sep 01, 2004 9:47:26 am PDT #8842 of 10001
What is even happening?

Or two.

Like Eve, I think I could have enjoyed her grizzly, fictional onscreen death on a permanent loop.


SailAweigh - Sep 01, 2004 2:49:48 pm PDT #8843 of 10001
Nana korobi, ya oki. (Fall down seven times, stand up eight.) ~Yuzuru Hanyu/Japanese proverb

I don't think the shows or the writers are consciously sexist, but the pattern is a bit hinky if you just count off who died. I think Dru is the only female character who left the show and didn't die.

I look at it from the standpoint that the (good) women* go down fighting. Men run away from the fight because they're weak. Whether or not that's the impression the writers meant to make, it's the way I took it.

  • Darla could be said to be a "good" woman, because she gave up her (un)life for her child. So, it still holds true.


Polter-Cow - Sep 01, 2004 2:50:53 pm PDT #8844 of 10001
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

I look at it from the standpoint that the (good) women* go down fighting.

Tara went down standing.


SailAweigh - Sep 01, 2004 2:55:35 pm PDT #8845 of 10001
Nana korobi, ya oki. (Fall down seven times, stand up eight.) ~Yuzuru Hanyu/Japanese proverb

If she went down, P-C, then she couldn't be standing.

t /literal.

Tara was collateral damage.


DebetEsse - Sep 01, 2004 4:03:05 pm PDT #8846 of 10001
Woe to the fucking wicked.

Jenny and Joyce also both didn't seem so much like going down fighting, and they were two of the other big deaths for the series.

You could make the argument with Jenny, but you have to abstract it. And if she had really thought of herself as actively in battle, surely she would have been working someplace a little more out of the line of fire.

On Joyce, don't get me wrong, I get what was being done with killing her. But it does add to the pattern.


Gris - Sep 01, 2004 4:27:55 pm PDT #8847 of 10001
Hey. New board.

I have a hard time coming up with male characters in Buffy that COULD have been killed.

Xander, like Willow, is one of the unkillables. They poked out his eye, though.

Oz could have been killed, but it would have caused a completely different dynamic in Willow that would have made Season Four quite different. Him LEAVING was necessary for that arc.

Riley should have died. maybe. But the same thing with the arc holds here, too. Only with Buffy instead of Willow. If he had died, we might have got a nice revenge thing out of Buffy, though, but that would have completely ignored the fact that their relationship was always boring. Him leaving worked better for that. The revenge arc worked much better with Willow/Tara a year later, because their relationship always struck a chord of actually working.

Angel did die. Didn't stay that way, I admit, but the pain-causing of it was still there for us to feel all bad about. Sometimes I wish they had left him dead, then I remember that I liked Season 3, and five seasons of Angel, so I let it go.

They could have let Giles die at the end of Season 6. It would have hurt like hell, and Willow would probably never have recovered, but it could have been done. I just don't think they'd want to kill 2 semi-major characters in the space of three episodes.

The fact that they mostly killed the girls in Angel is a bit harder to justify, as it's an almost exclusively male show, but they did kill Doyle. And, well, in that show the girls were the ones that could cause the most pain, the most emotion, by dying, I think. Excepting maybe Wesley (and always excepting the protagonist). And I think Wesley needed to stick around just as Willow and Xander did (though I would have said the same about Cordy until they killed her character. Before they actually killed her, I mean.)

I dunno. I think I would have made the same choices, honestly. And I don't consider myself sexist. Maybe it's their love for females that causes them to do it - they want to cause suffering in the emotions of their viewers, and they assume that their viewers are most emotionally invested in the girls. I know I always was.


§ ita § - Sep 01, 2004 4:29:06 pm PDT #8848 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Angel didn't die.

And Joss has said that Oz would have died if Willow had been dating him at that time.


Topic!Cindy - Sep 01, 2004 4:29:30 pm PDT #8849 of 10001
What is even happening?

Oz could have been killed, but it would have caused a completely different dynamic in Willow that would have made Season Four quite different. Him LEAVING was necessary for that arc.

Actually Seth Green's desire to leave make the arc necessary. He wasn't supposed to leave. And supposedly, eventually, the Oz character would have been killed, to turn Willow into Dark!Willow.


Gris - Sep 01, 2004 4:30:12 pm PDT #8850 of 10001
Hey. New board.

At which time?

ETA: Nubbermind.