Faith: A kid. Angel's got a kid. Wesley: Connor. Faith: A teenage kid born last year. Wesley: I told you, he grew up in a hell dimension. Faith: Right. And what, Cordelia spent her last summer as… Wesley: A divine being. Faith: Uh-huh. Can I just ask--What the hell are you people doing?

'Why We Fight'


Buffy 4: Grr. Arrgh.  

This is where we talk about Buffy the Vampire Slayer! No spoilers though?if you post one by accident, an admin will delete it. This thread is NO LONGER NAFDA. Please don't discuss current Angel events here.


DCJensen - May 30, 2004 8:26:14 am PDT #8209 of 10001
All is well that ends in pizza.

Yes and no. Buffy doesn't seem to know she can tap into the power.

Maybe if she would have been given the slayer's handbook....


§ ita § - May 30, 2004 8:27:35 am PDT #8210 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

It's very possible she wouldn't want to.


SailAweigh - May 30, 2004 12:01:35 pm PDT #8211 of 10001
Nana korobi, ya oki. (Fall down seven times, stand up eight.) ~Yuzuru Hanyu/Japanese proverb

It's very possible she wouldn't want to.

ITA. Buffy seemed to be (after Ted) overly conscious of her own strength and ability to tap into her darkside. Plus, speaking from personal experience, my darkside comes out in extremely harmful verbal smackdowns when I let myself really go. Not pretty, so I purposefully restrain myself 99.9% of the time and only let it out after much deepheld introspection to decide if it is the best way to approach the situation. It's usually a "no turning back" situation where you have to be willing to accept the consequences. Buffy's consequences usually meant someone's death. Not something I would want to be responsible for and I'm pretty sure Buffy didn't either. Giles summed it up when he smothered Ben telling him Buffy couldn't kill him because she was a hero. Hero's don't take life, they preserve it. Which means holding back and controlling the desire to go berserk. After all, they only pulled out the "UberSlayer" that one time in "Primeval," where she really needed it. And there was still nearly disasterous consequences then. I think Buffy learned early to only use as much force as was necessary.


§ ita § - May 30, 2004 12:06:54 pm PDT #8212 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

It's the whole Jekyll/Hyde thing. As rational modern people, we're supposed to want to be the Dr. Even Wolverine chose samurai over beserker.


SailAweigh - May 30, 2004 12:28:08 pm PDT #8213 of 10001
Nana korobi, ya oki. (Fall down seven times, stand up eight.) ~Yuzuru Hanyu/Japanese proverb

Nice summation, ita. I'm just too damn wordy.


Matt the Bruins fan - May 30, 2004 6:04:18 pm PDT #8214 of 10001
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand

I'm also not sure the berserker thing is absolutely true WRT Buffy. Prior to "Primeval" at least, she was at her most physically powerful at the end of "Prophecy Girl," when she was also uncharacteristically serene and in control.


DavidS - May 30, 2004 7:23:18 pm PDT #8215 of 10001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

I'm also not sure the berserker thing is absolutely true WRT Buffy. Prior to "Primeval" at least, she was at her most physically powerful at the end of "Prophecy Girl," when she was also uncharacteristically serene and in control.

Ditto when she killed the Ubervamp in front of the Potentials. Contrarily she was weaker than usual fighting Sunday until she mastered her emotions. Mostly she just needs to focus.


§ ita § - May 30, 2004 7:29:58 pm PDT #8216 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

There's two ends of it. Being a beserker doesn't mean sloppy or out of focus. Getting in touch with the primal is powerful -- but that's not what she was doing against Sunday. Her emotions were sapping her fight, not feeding them. Faith feeds her fight with passion. Buffy not as much.

Zen's on the other side, where emotions aren't even in the picture, mastery instead of abandonment -- that's where Buffy wants to be.

eta: Kendra was not Zen, IMO. She was cut off.


SailAweigh - May 30, 2004 7:36:57 pm PDT #8217 of 10001
Nana korobi, ya oki. (Fall down seven times, stand up eight.) ~Yuzuru Hanyu/Japanese proverb

Zen's on the other side, where emotions aren't even in the picture, mastery instead of abandonment -- that's where Buffy wants to be.

Are we sure of that, though? In season 2, Buffy forced Kendra to get angry and her anger actually helped her fight better, as Buffy claimed it helped her. Yet, in season 5, I would have said that Buffy was going for a more Zen approach (mastery through detachment), to the detriment of her fighting skills and effectiveness. However, I often felt that Buffy was seeking a balance. To be focused and effectual, while drawing on her emotions, her ties to her family and the world, for strength. It's not necessarily what may be espoused by real world martial arts programs, but it was what I saw in Buffy.


DebetEsse - May 30, 2004 7:40:00 pm PDT #8218 of 10001
Woe to the fucking wicked.

You could make the argument, though, that it's the events (particularly of seasons 2 and 5) that would make Buffy want to be detached. Also, watching Faith may well have soured her on using emotions to fuel power.