Zoe: Nobody's saying that, sir. Wash: Yeah, we're pretty much just giving each other significant glances and laughing incessantly.

'Our Mrs. Reynolds'


Buffy 4: Grr. Arrgh.  

This is where we talk about Buffy the Vampire Slayer! No spoilers though?if you post one by accident, an admin will delete it. This thread is NO LONGER NAFDA. Please don't discuss current Angel events here.


Susan W. - Apr 28, 2004 7:59:24 am PDT #7858 of 10001
Good Trouble and Righteous Fights

I don't know if you'd be an outlier in the sense I mean, ita--I wasn't thinking so much about the specific details of American adolescence as portrayed on the show as much as the broader concept that "adolescence" itself, the idea of an intermediate stage between childhood and full maturity, with its own culture and problems, is not a human universal.

At least, I'm pretty sure I read that in some anthropology text or another at some point, and it made enough sense to me that I nodded sagely and said "Hmm" in a reflective way.


§ ita § - Apr 28, 2004 8:02:08 am PDT #7859 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

How do you skip human adolescence though? Without being raised by wolves.

I didn't know high school was hell until I started watching TV/movies about it. And I was in university by that point.


Maysa - Apr 28, 2004 8:04:47 am PDT #7860 of 10001

That's what I thought when I watched it, and then I read the script and got all disappointed. That was supposed to be a sexy look.

It was? Huh.


Susan W. - Apr 28, 2004 8:11:47 am PDT #7861 of 10001
Good Trouble and Righteous Fights

How do you skip human adolescence though? Without being raised by wolves.

By going straight to adulthood, with all the responsibilities and expectations thereof, as soon as you hit physical maturity.

IIRC, the article I read described adolescence as a relatively recent invention, from when cultures got complex enough that people needed additional preparation to take on adult responsibilities beyond what they'd have at age 12 or 15 or so.

Of course, I'm describing something I vaguely recall reading years ago, so it's entirely possible everything I'm saying is pure b.s. But it makes sense to me--I mean, I don't feel like my paternal grandmother, who married and had her first child at 14, had anything I'd call an adolescence, though the social concept certainly existed by that time.


§ ita § - Apr 28, 2004 8:14:23 am PDT #7862 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

By going straight to adulthood, with all the responsibilities and expectations thereof, as soon as you hit physical maturity.

Hmm. You're kind of describing my parents' generation in Jamaica. I think my father could get Buffy, but my mother despises metaphor, so she'd be no use.


Miracleman - Apr 28, 2004 8:18:07 am PDT #7863 of 10001
No, I don't think I will - me, quoting Captain Steve Rogers, to all of 2020

BWAH!!

[link]


Polter-Cow - Apr 28, 2004 8:20:28 am PDT #7864 of 10001
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

Oh God, that's brilliant.


P.M. Marc - Apr 28, 2004 8:39:42 am PDT #7865 of 10001
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

Oh. Too painful to breathe. Laughing so hard.

My gut feeling is that they'd miss a lot of the metaphor, but that the overall quality of the storytelling is so good that they'd understand what was going on and enjoy it.

I think Paul (homeschooled) got most of the metaphor, even without the experience. (edit: what he missed was a lot of the pop culture refs.)


OtherKate - Apr 28, 2004 10:24:43 am PDT #7866 of 10001
This heart ain't gonna cut itself out

I thought Spike was stalkerish in S5, not charming. It was pretty well established in IWMTLY that building the April bot was a bad thing and then Spike goes and builds a Buffybot. Sure she was cute and funny, but still...ick.


Topic!Cindy - Apr 28, 2004 10:30:30 am PDT #7867 of 10001
What is even happening?

I thought Spike was stalkerish in S5, not charming. It was pretty well established in IWMTLY that building the April bot was a bad thing and then Spike goes and builds a Buffybot. Sure she was cute and funny, but still...ick.

The reason that all works for me is it contributed to that tension inherent in Chipped!Spike. He really was not so much a monster, and still not a man. He wasn't bad enough, and wasn't good enough. Yeah, the bot building was one of the bad things he did, and then, in the same episode, he endured a severe beating and risked death, to protect Dawn (and Buffy). He did lots of despise-able things, right along side some noble things. I really thought they did a good job setting up both Buffy's attraction to him, and her self-disgust. Both seemed reasonable to me.