Prepare to uncouple -- uncouple.

Oz ,'Same Time, Same Place'


Buffy 4: Grr. Arrgh.  

This is where we talk about Buffy the Vampire Slayer! No spoilers though?if you post one by accident, an admin will delete it. This thread is NO LONGER NAFDA. Please don't discuss current Angel events here.


§ ita § - Jul 31, 2003 9:07:15 am PDT #4002 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I'd ask you to consider why you use an abbreviation for this one event in the entire history of the show and not for any other.

For me, it's because I'm lazy, and every time I refer to it I call it exactly the same thing "the attempted rape". Xander's big lie is sometimes "the time Xander lied to Buffy in S2" or "Xander being pissy and jealous". Tara's death is "Warren shooting Tara" or "the magical mystery wicca-killing bullet" or any number of other expressions. The attempted rape? Always "the attempted rape". Also, clearly understood by folks here.

So I shortcut.

I am lazy, after all.

Don't know why other people do it.

Nothing breezy, nothing dismissive.


Vortex - Jul 31, 2003 9:13:10 am PDT #4003 of 10001
"Cry havoc and let slip the boobs of war!" -- Miracleman

I watched from season one, and I flat disagree with your readig of the last two seasons. Sure, they were messy (although I don't object to them just dumping the AR when they realised what a sore point it was) but they were the most inventive and unconventional seasons.

I watched from season one, episode one. Though some of the ideas in the last two seasons were inventive and unconventional, the execution was poor. There were countless character issues (inconsistency, interaction), there were plot lines that went no where (Eye of Bejoxa), and the writing did not consist of the clever dialogue that we have come to expect and demand of ME.


Noumenon - Jul 31, 2003 9:28:37 am PDT #4004 of 10001
No other candidate is asking the hard questions, like "Did geophysicists assassinate Jim Henson?" or "Why is there hydrogen in America's water supply?" --defective yeti

Nice article in the LA Times about AH here.

Do Buffistas have a login at the LA times? I don't want to tell them my age, income level, and shopping habits just to read an interview.


Sue - Jul 31, 2003 10:11:05 am PDT #4005 of 10001
hip deep in pie

I think Salon/Tabletalk work at LA Times.


Sean K - Jul 31, 2003 11:25:47 am PDT #4006 of 10001
You can't leave me to my own devices; my devices are Nap and Eat. -Zenkitty

Some people aren't charming or attractive enough to deserve a date in the natural order of things

I would like to agree with ita that this has nothing to do with it.

A person is either attracted to another person, or they're not, and you can't reason, discuss, argue, cajole, harass, beg, plead, trick, whine, outwait, or do anything else like that to change that.

The heart wants what it wants, and it doesn't want what it doesn't want, and if one heart wants it and the other doesn't, it ain't gonna happen, and the wanter needs to deal.

Did you watch from Season one, on? Or did you become a fan later in the series?

I started at the very beginning of S3, and I have to agree with Allyson. I did not think S6 & 7 were very good (comparitively), and left me dissatisfied.


DCJensen - Jul 31, 2003 11:57:04 am PDT #4007 of 10001
All is well that ends in pizza.

I guess part of the reason I brought up the depressant was that his more evil nature would come out with the do-gooder redemption-seeking Spike soused, thus causing his impared judgement in trying to force buffy to participate. Some drunk people (and apparently vamps) get very single minded and do things their non-soused selves wouldn't. Drinking lowers the inhibitions and screws up the judgement.

And they had spike do the classic moment of clarity through the haze with his "Oh my god, what am I doing?" face.

Yet they never really tried to *use* that as an excuse. For good or ill, Buffy and Spike should have at least discussed it when he got sober.

I agree they sort of just shoved the whole thing aside. I wish they had at least *tried* to pin it on alcohol.

In a season of "addiction," it seems odd thay didn't even bring it up.


Daisy Jane - Jul 31, 2003 12:53:38 pm PDT #4008 of 10001
"This bar smells like kerosene and stripper tears."

Buffy purity test.

Woohoo. I'm an obsessive, as I'm sure we all are.


UTTAD - Jul 31, 2003 1:39:05 pm PDT #4009 of 10001
Strawberry disappointment.

Just read this over at Slayage. It's talking about the memory wipe in Tabula Rasa.

Buffy shook off her malaise and became forceful and confident. Willow was smart and resourceful, Tara sweet, Xander a regular guy, Giles was mature and wise, etc. Each reverting to their basic nature unencumbered with history of self. I believe the writer’s were trying to make a point here. Divested of his memory and having no identity to speak of, Spike should have reverted to the violent demon nature becoming, once again, an evil and violent creature. There were no memories of perceived goodness, no love for Buffy, no recall of the chip, all that was left was his basic nature and it should have been evil. It wasn’t. Spike saw himself as human and good; Randy Giles in tweed. Later, when confronted with his vampire reality he declared himself as a force for good; a vampire with a soul.


Katie M - Jul 31, 2003 1:50:55 pm PDT #4010 of 10001
I was charmed (albeit somewhat perplexed) by the fannish sensibility of many of the music choices -- it's like the director was trying to vid Canada. --loligo on the Olympic Opening Ceremonies

Yes, that's why I was bitter about Tabula Rasa. Got over it, though.


WildDemon Cornelius - Jul 31, 2003 3:20:29 pm PDT #4011 of 10001
Take your fingers off it, don't you dare touch it, you know it don't belong to you, to you...

Hmm..might have worked, although I found Spike's Angelesque self-description hilarious. The thing is, I think that in "Tabula Rasa" Spike did go back to his basic self, albeit his basic human self. His "vampire with a soul" speech proves this as he is clearly in romantic idealist/pretentious wanna-be poet mode at that point (Buffy responds the same way everyone else did to William the Bloody's poetry; "how lame is that?"). You also have his kissing Buffy; he's clearly imagining this as a wind-swept romantic love story where he fights off the evil vampires and gets the girl. He also trusts Buffy/Joan (the mother figure leader of the group) but is wary of father figure Giles ("I must hate you, there's always something"), who he believes to be his actual father. This is reminiscent of William's love for his mother in "LMPTM" as well as his vampiric love of his "mother" Drusilla, both of which had a very Oedipal feel to them. Again, he seeks comfort from the strong female while lashing out at the father type.