I don't know about you all, but I am still highly unsatisfied by Giles' behaviour. Even after he was not the First, I didn't like how he behaved (i.e. slashing the Bringer's throat)

I'm right there with you.

I didn't mind the throat slash. I think ASH was misused, but really, I'm not so sure they were always certain which episodes they'd have him in, and that may have been due to ASH's schedule, so I never had great expectations. I was just glad to see him when I could. I did think the misdirect with the Bringer almost killing him was lame though.

still think though, in the Buffyverse, when someone invokes the power of everyone who loves her and all the strength within, she does a spell powerful enough, that that should have been ghost!Joyce, not FE!Joyce, so I have to reject Jane's answer.

Your first post on this totally persuaded me. I hear ya. Love Jane, too. Know she wrote it. But she be wrong.

Here is the THING: WTF was that battle between Joyce and that morespooky thing all about then? Just to convince Dawn it really really was her mom? Because I think her *dead* mom appearing to her would do that just fine. And - it didn't convince her - she was kinda freaked about it - but it never came back up in a significant way. Ugh. It's pointless - like Allyson said - all the cohesion of baby snot.

Giles was just written off. That's why I wanted him to be the FE, or otherwise evil. I'd rather the problem be in their 'verse than ours.

The other reason the FE!Joyce doesn't make a lick of sense is because, if the First was capable of doing poltergeisty things, the whole "no touchy" thing becomes irrelevant and pointless.

Also, why the fighting to get her to show up?

Also, why the fighting to get her to show up?

It could have been to convince Dawn that she really was talking to her mother. Not that I am saying it was FE!Joyce. I like Victor's explaination that it was both.

All that said about the FE!Joyce debacle though - and this just can't be stated enough - CWDP is what made me go - OK this is season and the First - it's going to be incredible. (Yes, I know it didn't turn out that way for for a lot of people, myself included...but still.) And finding out the FE!Joyce has never made any sense - to anyone including the writer - doesn't tarnish that for me really.

Because I was just stunned through the Joyce and Dawn scenes. I thought it was scary, sad, showed great growth in the character arc for Dawn, and now, I don't really care that it didn't pay off. I mean, I do - but it was still - that feeling of "I can't stand to wait 7 days to find out what happens next. I laughed, I cried...." The whole thing. Glad it was on Joss' Top 10 - I don't know that it's on mine, but it's right up there.

editted to allow for the possiblity that others might feel differently - and because I always find something to edit

Was Buffy on last night?

I mean -- did I miss the repeat of Get It Done? Which I need to tape?

Because next week and the week after UPN is scheduling Buffy at 8 pm Central (9 Eastern) -- apparently they are showing First Date and the next week Storyteller - -so SKIPPING the one episode I need to tape?!?!!

So frustrating.

Buffy was not on last night.

Buffy at 8pm Central???? What world without shrimp is this?

At least it is on - I thought I read (someone here I don't know which thread) that UPN wasn't going to show anymore at all.