Reavers ain't men. Or they forgot how to be. Now they're just nothing. They got out to the edge of the galaxy, to that place of nothing, and that's what they became.

Mal ,'Bushwhacked'


Buffy 4: Grr. Arrgh.  

This is where we talk about Buffy the Vampire Slayer! No spoilers though?if you post one by accident, an admin will delete it. This thread is NO LONGER NAFDA. Please don't discuss current Angel events here.


Glamcookie - May 15, 2003 11:19:16 am PDT #318 of 10001
I know my own heart and understand my fellow man. But I am made unlike anyone I have ever met. I dare to say I am like no one in the whole world. - Anne Lister

Spike's ability to kill Wood-and his choice not to (for the moment)-was when I felt Spike had finally grown up.

See, this made my Spike hate go through the roof. Spike killed Wood's mother. This would have been a perfect opportunity to show that Spike had changed if he had shown remorse for the killing. If he had said, "I'm a different man now." Instead he takes back Wood's mother coat and Wood basically gets told by Buffy that Spike's life is worth more than Wood's. WTF? That pissed me off and showed me that souled Spike was no different than old Spike and it made me say, "Where'd our Buffy go and who is this heartless beyotch in her place?"


§ ita § - May 15, 2003 11:24:49 am PDT #319 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I'm glad Spike showed no remorse for the killing. If the man hadn't tried to kill him, I'd have been interested if he'd said "Sorry your mother's dead." But Spike killing Nikki was what Spike, and any vampire that could have, did. It's more their raison d'etre, only avoided through technological or magical means.


Wolfram - May 15, 2003 11:28:42 am PDT #320 of 10001
Visilurking

See, this made my Spike hate go through the roof. Spike killed Wood's mother. This would have been a perfect opportunity to show that Spike had changed if he had shown remorse for the killing. If he had said, "I'm a different man now." Instead he takes back Wood's mother coat and Wood basically gets told by Buffy that Spike's life is worth more than Wood's. WTF? That pissed me off and showed me that souled Spike was no different than old Spike and it made me say, "Where'd our Buffy go and who is this heartless beyotch in her place?"

Despite the uneven writing this season, I actually like souled!Spike. And not that I agree with this, but Spike's rationale is that he doesn't owe Wood an apology. Since he was evil Spike, and he's now good Spike, he's not the one who did the deed. And if Wood doesn't get that and wants to kill good Spike, then bugger 'em.

So Angel spends a century trying to atone for Angelus's sins, and Spike spends a few episodes as crazy loon, and then realizes souled!Spike is not responsible for evil!Spike's actions. He takes a moment, and moves on.


Wolfram - May 15, 2003 11:29:30 am PDT #321 of 10001
Visilurking

And what ita said.


Glamcookie - May 15, 2003 11:33:29 am PDT #322 of 10001
I know my own heart and understand my fellow man. But I am made unlike anyone I have ever met. I dare to say I am like no one in the whole world. - Anne Lister

Since he was evil Spike, and he's now good Spike, he's not the one who did the deed. And if Wood doesn't get that and wants to kill good Spike, then bugger 'em.

Okay, then explain why the m-effer took back Wood's dead mother's coat - that's pretty damned low. Of course Wood was trying to kill him - Spike killed his mother and he's a vampire. Not to mention he had Giles' support. Wood was justified. I'd think that part of having a soul would be showing regret or remorse for the evil you'd done (see Angel).


victor infante - May 15, 2003 11:34:13 am PDT #323 of 10001
To understand what happened at the diner, we shall use Mr. Papaya! This is upsetting because he's the friendliest of fruits.

See, this made my Spike hate go through the roof. Spike killed Wood's mother. This would have been a perfect opportunity to show that Spike had changed if he had shown remorse for the killing. If he had said, "I'm a different man now." Instead he takes back Wood's mother coat and Wood basically gets told by Buffy that Spike's life is worth more than Wood's. WTF? That pissed me off and showed me that souled Spike was no different than old Spike and it made me say, "Where'd our Buffy go and who is this heartless beyotch in her place?"

See, I loved that scene. I love that Spike's not all Angelriffic over his past. Besides, if he DID tell Wood, "I'm a different man now," I doubt Wood have gotten the message, and most of this board would have been howling "THEY'RE TELLING NOT SHOWING!!!" HEre, they DID show...they show'd that Spike has changed in some ways--I mean, Wood's alive--and in other ways, he really hasn't. As to Buffy, that I didn't care quite as much for, but she was (justifiably) angry, and I took it as a bit of overstatement to get her point across.


Glamcookie - May 15, 2003 11:35:46 am PDT #324 of 10001
I know my own heart and understand my fellow man. But I am made unlike anyone I have ever met. I dare to say I am like no one in the whole world. - Anne Lister

I wouldn't mind it so much if there was no Spuffy. That Buffy's got his back in these cases just kills me. I hate it.


Cindy - May 15, 2003 11:35:49 am PDT #325 of 10001
Nobody

Not to mention he had Giles' support. Wood was justified. I'd think that part of having a soul would be showing regret or remorse for the evil you'd done (see Angel).

In the Buffyverse philosophy of good and evil, within the moral framework of the Buffyverse, how was Wood justified? Wood was seeking vengeance. The Buffyverse philosophy so abhors vengeance that vengeance has its own demons to do it's bidding, that there are curses made out of vengeance, etc.


Cindy - May 15, 2003 11:36:47 am PDT #326 of 10001
Nobody

Besides, if he DID tell Wood, "I'm a different man now," I doubt Wood have gotten the message, and most of this board would have been howling "THEY'RE TELLING NOT SHOWING!!!" HEre, they DID show...they show'd that Spike has changed in some ways--I mean, Wood's alive--and in other ways, he really hasn't. As to Buffy, that I didn't care quite as much for, but she was (justifiably) angry, and I took it as a bit of overstatement to get her point across.

Wood already knew Spike was a different man now. That's pretty much why he triggered Spike, and darn near said as much.


Glamcookie - May 15, 2003 11:37:00 am PDT #327 of 10001
I know my own heart and understand my fellow man. But I am made unlike anyone I have ever met. I dare to say I am like no one in the whole world. - Anne Lister

Well, Spike is a vampire. Wood has dedicated his life to killing vampires. Justified.