It's moot to me anyway. None of the core four characters ever held each other responsible for things done under the influence of magic such that it affected their personality. Oz's wolfy boink of Veruca treads that grey line. Willow and Xander's indiscretion doesn't get that pass. Further, while he might have allowed the situation to evolve instead of nipping it off, there was the real danger that Veruca would go out and kill if he didn't pull her into the cage. Again, no such pass for W/X.
You got fired, and you still hang around here like a big loser. Why can't he?
Cordelia ,'Chosen'
Buffy 4: Grr. Arrgh.
This is where we talk about Buffy the Vampire Slayer! No spoilers though?if you post one by accident, an admin will delete it. This thread is NO LONGER NAFDA. Please don't discuss current Angel events here.
DavidS - Jun 21, 2003 4:53:53 pm PDT #2947 of 10001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."
Elena - Jun 21, 2003 4:58:31 pm PDT #2948 of 10001
Thanks for all the fish.
Further, while he might have allowed the situation to evolve instead of nipping it off, there was the real danger that Veruca would go out and kill if he didn't pull her into the cage.
There certainly was. Which is why he should have, I don't know, told somebody!
Sean K - Jun 21, 2003 5:01:55 pm PDT #2949 of 10001
You can't leave me to my own devices; my devices are Nap and Eat. -Zenkitty
He gets a pass for the first time - but he made the decision to have Veruca with him in his cage whilst still a human, and that's where the infidelity occurred.
Seth even points this out in the commentary for the episode. Oz is the initiatior at every step, he calls Veruca, He invites her to the cage, he pulls her inside...
Though I see what Hec is getting at, too.
Elena - Jun 21, 2003 5:03:55 pm PDT #2950 of 10001
Thanks for all the fish.
Right. He could have had the Scoobies waiting with a second cage and a tranq gun. Or a net. Lots of other ways he could have handled it.
DavidS - Jun 21, 2003 5:07:55 pm PDT #2951 of 10001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."
I didn't say Oz didn't bear responsibility - just that his sin was more defensible and less of a betrayal than Willow's actions with Xander. Willow knowingly and consciously played footsie and stole kisses.
As for not calling in the Scoobies with nets and guns - that's a crime all of them are guilty of. They've each gone off on things solo that they shouldn't have with murky motivations.
Mostly though I just like watching Elena defend Willow.
Frankenbuddha - Jun 21, 2003 5:17:53 pm PDT #2952 of 10001
"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"
Mostly though I just like watching Elena defend Willow.
I was about to comment on this very thing. LOL!
Elena =/= Free pass for anyone.
Elena - Jun 21, 2003 5:19:03 pm PDT #2953 of 10001
Thanks for all the fish.
I'm all about the personal responsibility, baby. And what Willow and Xander did was wrong, yes, but what Oz and Veruca did was worse, in my book.
DavidS - Jun 21, 2003 5:22:05 pm PDT #2954 of 10001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."
but what Oz and Veruca did was worse, in my book
Different book than I've got. Which is fine - just noting the distinction. I respect the thoroughness of your ethical stance.
erikaj - Jun 21, 2003 5:27:37 pm PDT #2955 of 10001
Always Anti-fascist!
I would still plead altered consciousness for O/V. Maybe he was taking advantage of it a little, but I don't suppose wolves are known for superego.
Sean K - Jun 21, 2003 5:37:12 pm PDT #2956 of 10001
You can't leave me to my own devices; my devices are Nap and Eat. -Zenkitty
I see merit in both arguments. Relationships have never been easy or uncomplicated on this show.