My god...he's gonna do the whole speech.

Buffy ,'Chosen'


Buffy 4: Grr. Arrgh.  

This is where we talk about Buffy the Vampire Slayer! No spoilers though?if you post one by accident, an admin will delete it. This thread is NO LONGER NAFDA. Please don't discuss current Angel events here.


brenda m - May 25, 2003 10:34:53 pm PDT #2330 of 10001
If you're going through hell/keep on going/don't slow down/keep your fear from showing/you might be gone/'fore the devil even knows you're there

IIRC, Jesus

Yep, that's my take.

Heh. Don't Go Home With Your Hard-on just came up on my playlist (AIFG).


Elena - May 25, 2003 10:35:16 pm PDT #2331 of 10001
Thanks for all the fish.

Who's the him?

Right.

And Jesus was a sailor
when he walked upon the water
mumble something
He said 'All men will be sailors, then
until the sea shall free them'
But he himself was broken
long before the thought was spoken

Or words to that effect.


§ ita § - May 25, 2003 10:35:26 pm PDT #2332 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

IIRC, Jesus.

Okay. I'm good. It's the closest I'll ever come to having a song in my name, so I just needed to get it first.


P.M. Marc - May 25, 2003 10:37:10 pm PDT #2333 of 10001
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

Brenda, I love Don't Go Home With Your Hard On.

Pity about Spector being fucking nuts, because Death of a Ladies Man had a hell of a lot of potential.

I'm listening to Lover Lover Lover on repeat. AIFG.


Burrell - May 25, 2003 10:46:40 pm PDT #2334 of 10001
Why did Darth Vader cross the road? To get to the Dark Side!

mumble something

He spent a long time watching
from a lonely wooden tower
And when He knew for certain
only drowning men could see him
He said "All men shall be sailors, then...


DavidS - May 25, 2003 10:47:39 pm PDT #2335 of 10001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

Pity about Spector being fucking nuts, because Death of a Ladies Man had a hell of a lot of potential.

We're covering it in the book.


P.M. Marc - May 25, 2003 10:48:33 pm PDT #2336 of 10001
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

We're covering it in the book.

I know. You mentioned in Bitches. Which, of course, prompted my Defending of DoaLM back then.


Julie - May 26, 2003 12:31:01 am PDT #2337 of 10001

bigness of action, Buffy, all on her own, outrunning the implosion and leaping tall buildings in (almost) a single bound is literally larger.

Sure. But it's not an action that defeats the villain of the season or It's minions, which is why I consider it "denouement" rather than "climax."

Not to pull you back in when you thought you were out, Micole, but...

It's not minions that defeat the villain this season. Not for me.
And it's not Spike that gets the big moment.

The big moment, action wise, was Buffy's "Get out of my face."

That's when she was the selfless hero. That's when she stood up. And she took back what was hers. (Quite literally.) And she turned the tide. Again.

It's all, Chamberlainesque "Hold the line, Hold the line, Oh, dammit, I'll hold the line myself".

Look at the effect that it has on every other person in the room. Not symbolically. Not metaphorically. Buffy's resurgence actually strengthens them. They had faltered. And then they recovered.

Beating the First down? That was the victory, here.
All Spike did was a little post action cleaning, filled a few divots the party had opened up. It was the burn it down and salt the earth of season seven. But the battle had been fought and won by then. (Of course, getting out alive is always nice, too :)


Cindy - May 26, 2003 6:07:12 am PDT #2338 of 10001
Nobody

I'm with Julie on the fighting and winning.

Spike should totally die laughing. It's a perfect note for him to go out on.

Oh, I totally agree. It was perfect. I just find it interesting that he didn't get to go out "all fists and fangs" and still got to go out fighting in a way.

I'm glad there were no fangs. He retained some of his Spike (pre-soul and chip) look, but the amulet had scrubbing bubbles, etc. I like to think of him being purified. Heaven knows he needed it.


Anne W. - May 26, 2003 7:26:30 am PDT #2339 of 10001
The lost sheep grow teeth, forsake their lambs, and lie with the lions.

I do think that some of that laughter at the end was joy along with the obvious defiance.

I rewatched both "End of Days" and "Chosen" back to back, and it was interesting how much the idea of aloneness vs. togetherness in EoD jumped out of me. Faith's comment about being alone. Spike's "were you there with me" and Buffy's "yes."

Another thing that jumped out at me at the end of "Chosen" was one of Willow's final comments. [paraphrase] "We didn't just save the world, we changed the world." The Slayer no longer has to fight alone. Women no longer have to play by/be victimized by the old rules.

The more I think about it, the more the idea of togetherness/sharing of strength crops up throughout the seasons of Buffy.

It is mentioned several times throughout the seasons that Buffy is unique among Slayers in that she has a group of friends fighting alongside her. Off the top of my head, I can recall Spike's comments in S2 about the friends thing being a bit of a shock. Then there was his whole analysis of the situation in "Fool for Love." Buffy has friends who give her a reason to keep fighting and who give her the strength to keep fighting. The First Slayer in "Restless" was quite put out about Buffy having friends and sharing her power.

Season by season, the together/alone thing plays out in the final arcs in different ways.

S1: Buffy should have died, end of story, but Xander's being there with the CPR saved her life. The simple lesson is that your chances of survival are better if you've got someone there to cover your back.

S2: At the time, Angel's speech about "what do you have left?" and Buffy's reply of "Me." seemed hella empowering, and in a way, it was. It's also very sad. When her back was to the wall, she was able to fight back, but the end of S2 was a hollow victory in many ways. It ended with an emotionally devastated Buffy leaving Sunnydale with no word to her friends about her fate. She saved the world, yes, but it hardly seemed worth it.

S3: Buffy was acknowledged as class protector, in what was probably one of the very few times a Slayer was acknowledged for the work she had done. Also, rather than the Slayer and a chosen few going up against the big bad, the entire Class of 1999 was in on defeating the big evil.

S4: The biggest threat to the group was when they nearly tore themselves apart from within, and they found their greatest strength when they did the joining spell, using each of their unique gifts to make something greater than the sum of the parts.

S5: Spike changed greatly and let himself be tortured by Glory out of love for Buffy. Willow's love for Tara pushed her into taking on greater--and more dangerous--magical power. Dawn tried to resurrect Joyce even though she knew the consequences might be terrible. Buffy's love for Dawn led her to making the ultimate sacrifice. This season took the whole "love makes you do the wacky" and pushed it to its limits.

S6: Buffy's whole emotional arc was based on her emotional deadness, and climaxed in the grave with Dawn, where she finally felt the need to be part of Dawn's life and to be a sister to her, not just a zombified caretaker. Willow went dark and destructive because of the grief and deadness she felt over losing Tara. In a way, Buffy and Willow shared much the same arc in S6--Buffy's feeling of loss and sadness (one of the things she mentioned about heaven was how loved she felt) played out in indulging in a self-destructive sexual relationship with Spike. Willow's feelings of loss manifested more as outward destruction. Both were brought back to reality by the love of someone who was a close family member. (Xander counts as family as far as Willow is concerned, IMHO).

S7: The hard part of being the Slayer is revealed as not being the whole responsibility schtick, but as the fact that it is a burden that's borne alone. The power of the Slayer was not diluted by being shared--it seemed to be radically increased. A lot of those girls were pulling moves that would have put S1 Buffy to shame, IMHO.

One other thing that struck me: Willow's hair went white as she shared out the power vs. the blackness that manifested as she sucked power out of the books and out of Rack. It seemed to me that she felt pleasure while using the dark magic, but it was a twisted sort of pleasure. The white-haired magic at the end also seemed to be pleasurable, but it read to me as being more of a giddy sort of joy and elation.

Sorry if any of this seems rambly, obvious, or facile. I'm doing my best to avoid packing or working on the stuff I brought home from work.