I'm really heartened to know that Allyson took seriously the fallout from her kerfuffle with Jen and has made a continuing thoughtful effort to find the right words. Because, upthread she was saying, "Not gonna change" which only captures her knowing her own character, but doesn't reflect the fact that she reflected on things and did make some changes.

Well, I'm still going to be as "aggressive" as whatever. But not so much violent.

Uh, if my editor is lurking here, Teppy just made that up in the example upthread.

Note to Hec's editor (who, from my example, wouldn't have been able to identify "Hec" as the author he edits) -- I didn't mean you.

As far as you know.

Well, I'm still going to be as "aggressive" as whatever. But not so much violent.

That seems like an important distinction to me. As Xanderella said, the board has fiercely protective warriors and nurturing hand-holders and both are essential or this space wouldn't be what it is.

As for the back-channel issue, those of us who have LJs and blogs and AIM and IRC and mailing lists don't all run in the same circles any more than those of us who live in geographic proximity see each other every week. And that's okay. Let's not propogate this concept that there's an invisible cabal of people out to run the board/community/fandom.

This issue was a few posts ago, but it bears repeating, and I'd like to take it further. People who think they are on the "outside" see a lot more cohesion and harmony than is actually here. What may appear to be BFF!!! among prolific posters is not, in fact, the case. And the fact that people can maintain civility with other prolific posters they dislike is one of the reasons they stay here and are...prolific posters.

If it really is the case that there are bullies on this board? Most people would find that distasteful and they would lose a lot of respect (social capital). Nor would they be a bully very long because they have lost that.

Anyway, IMO and IME it's simply impossible for there to be a central group who like and respect each other. That's what it looks like, but that's not what it is. I'm surprised you take it as a given, Trudy, because you have been here long enough to know better than I do what divisions lie beneath the surface here.

I bring this up only b/c above posters suggest that if you don't speak up when you have an issue, you have only yourself to blame. So in that spirit:

People who think they are on the "outside" see a lot more cohesion and harmony than is actually here...

Actually, Trudy summed up what she and I (presumably two posters "on the outside") believed, with this:

...but there's no organization to it and I didn't see any implication that there was. Nobody is saying there is some sort of Buffista Illuminati.

The whole cabal thing was brought up by a few 'inside' posters, and has somehow become accepted as fact regarding what some of the 'outside' posters think. It is not. At least not by me - or as far as I can tell from her words, for Trudy either.

Rafmun, I think it started here. Way back, you said this:

It seems from an outside perspective that it has become more important to a small minority of posters to impose their feelings on the board than make the board better for the group.

I misinterpreted you with this:

I'm sure you didn't mean it this way, but your post seems to imply that there's a secret subversive gang that tries to impose its will on the rest of the community. There isn't.

Trudy called me on it with this:

IMHO there are individuals who try to impose their will, but there's no organization to it and I didn't see any implication that there was. Nobody is saying there is some sort of Buffista Illuminati.

And you've set the record straight many times but most recently with this:

The whole cabal thing was brought up by a few 'inside' posters, and has somehow become accepted as fact regarding what some of the 'outside' posters think. It is not. At least not by me - or as far as I can tell from her words, for Trudy either.

I believe you meant each poster of the "small minority" individually acts in a selfish manner, and I had understood you to mean the "small minority" as a group acts in a selfish manner. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

because some people keep saying it does not mean that it has been "accepted by fact": by any larger group. I for one am just sick to death of hearing about it in any words or phrases.

If you really think of Trudy as an "outside" poster, I once again have to question how well you know this community. She may be frequently in the minority opinion, but she's been a pillar of the community since TT.

Actually, Rafmun, it's not all about you, and since you haven't posted much today, I think you can safely assume that we're not talking about you. I was responding to other comments brought up by other people.

Wolfram - yes. Thank you.

If you really think of Trudy as an "outside" poster, I once again have to question how well you know this community. She may be frequently in the minority opinion, but she's been a pillar of the community since TT.

Upon reflection, what matters is how Trudy feels and where she believes she stands. So perhaps we could agree that it would be best to leave it to her (if she so chooses, that is) to reflect on whether or not she feels part of the so-called 'inside'.