I bring this up only b/c above posters suggest that if you don't speak up when you have an issue, you have only yourself to blame. So in that spirit:

People who think they are on the "outside" see a lot more cohesion and harmony than is actually here...

Actually, Trudy summed up what she and I (presumably two posters "on the outside") believed, with this:

...but there's no organization to it and I didn't see any implication that there was. Nobody is saying there is some sort of Buffista Illuminati.

The whole cabal thing was brought up by a few 'inside' posters, and has somehow become accepted as fact regarding what some of the 'outside' posters think. It is not. At least not by me - or as far as I can tell from her words, for Trudy either.

Rafmun, I think it started here. Way back, you said this:

It seems from an outside perspective that it has become more important to a small minority of posters to impose their feelings on the board than make the board better for the group.

I misinterpreted you with this:

I'm sure you didn't mean it this way, but your post seems to imply that there's a secret subversive gang that tries to impose its will on the rest of the community. There isn't.

Trudy called me on it with this:

IMHO there are individuals who try to impose their will, but there's no organization to it and I didn't see any implication that there was. Nobody is saying there is some sort of Buffista Illuminati.

And you've set the record straight many times but most recently with this:

The whole cabal thing was brought up by a few 'inside' posters, and has somehow become accepted as fact regarding what some of the 'outside' posters think. It is not. At least not by me - or as far as I can tell from her words, for Trudy either.

I believe you meant each poster of the "small minority" individually acts in a selfish manner, and I had understood you to mean the "small minority" as a group acts in a selfish manner. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

because some people keep saying it does not mean that it has been "accepted by fact": by any larger group. I for one am just sick to death of hearing about it in any words or phrases.

If you really think of Trudy as an "outside" poster, I once again have to question how well you know this community. She may be frequently in the minority opinion, but she's been a pillar of the community since TT.

Actually, Rafmun, it's not all about you, and since you haven't posted much today, I think you can safely assume that we're not talking about you. I was responding to other comments brought up by other people.

Wolfram - yes. Thank you.

If you really think of Trudy as an "outside" poster, I once again have to question how well you know this community. She may be frequently in the minority opinion, but she's been a pillar of the community since TT.

Upon reflection, what matters is how Trudy feels and where she believes she stands. So perhaps we could agree that it would be best to leave it to her (if she so chooses, that is) to reflect on whether or not she feels part of the so-called 'inside'.

Cabal, shmabal. No two people on the board, if challenged to name such a cabal, would list the same individuals.

But let's not start, hey?

That way lies witch hunts and pitchforks, and other fun activities.

Which reminds me, can we have our torches back yet, or are we still in negotiations with the Fire Department?

Upon reflection, what matters is how Trudy feels and where she believes she stands.

That's true, inasmuch as we can't question the validity of Trudy's feelings, but then it rather calls into question your premise, doesn't it?

Because, as we've said above in this thread repeatedly, everyone feels marginalized from time to time. Who then are the mysterious unnamed people imposing their will on the voiceless masses?

You are, of course, welcome to refute my assertion that everyone feels marginalized. But if you accept that Trudy feels so, then why not me, Shawn, ita, or David...?

I have to stop posting here, it's making me crazy(er).

I want to note just for the sake of clarification, that when I talked about "the center" and "the edge" I wasn't talking about individuals here, but issues which had broad support, and issues which were held dearly but less popular.

Tartlets, tartlets...this conversation is losing its pointfulness to me. Not to stifle, but is anything new being brought to the discussion at this point?