Think they're so cold. Waddling around all 'Now the people will know we were here' and 'Look how many words we have for snow! Bet you've only got, like three.' Bastards.

Did I say Eskimoes? I meant the Irish.

'Night folks.

I tried, and (obviously) failed to make an observation that might be used constructively. My bad. Should have been clearer, more serious and less playful, had better tone, named names, posted 'Huh.' more frequently, and possibly brought along a Grail or beer nuts.

Water. Bridge. I retire to Atlantic Canada, where I can be berated and reviled between 9 and 11 am (Atlantic Time), Thursdays, Sundays, and alternate Fridays.

~ They support me by telegraph and smoke signal.

Is he gone?

What a jerk!

I think I was explaining ita's relationship with the board...is his comparison still offensive? Sounded right the way he put it. Man, talk about blind leading the blind here.

t chuckling

Yeah, we are kinda floundering there. It wasn't offensive, really. It's just that Hickok on Deadwood is kind of a morally bankrupt drifter/parasite who coasts on his reputation and people being scared shitless of him. But he is a stone-cold killer who will do what needs to be done, and has a larger-than-life personality.

Somehow, I'm guessing that Bob meant the positive aspects of that stuff and that I should watch more Deadwood, then post about it in Boxed Set or something. Is that Pollyanna-ish?

That is, you (i.e. everyone) are responsible for how you come across. Always, even if people misconstrue what you mean. Especially if people misconstrue what you mean, because if reasonable people don't get your meaning, then you're not being as clear as you think you are.

What Nutty Said.

I'm not messing with ya, Elena, I remember trying to make it clear that I wasn't trying to hurt your feelings in a rather cold post I made regarding deathmatches, not long ago. Because I was trying to convey a cold tone toward the deathmatches (because I have no feelings on them), but not the person behind them (because I feel warmly toward you), or your wishes regarding Press.

Please believe me that I did not in any way take offense at your posts on that subject, and never believed you were trying to be offensive. If you wanted to hurt my feelings you'd really hurt them (which is almost 84% compliment), you'd not poke at my edges. You are blunt and forthright (and often funny and incisive) and sometimes much harsher than I think is necessary. But I never have to wonder if you are slamming someone - it's very clear when you are.

I am in love with Nutty's Corollary and want to marry it RIGHT NOW.

Look, I can be just as morally bankrupt as the next person. Stop trying to limit my potential.

Rafmun, I would caution you, in the strongest terms possible, to avoid doing things if you don't like it when others do them.

This, for example:

You know what? You can't convey tone by an overt statement indicating that is the tone in which your words should be understood.

Heh heh - I actually like this!

You can't explain what you mean by explaining what you meant! And of course, the content of the words have already been dismissed, as have the specific points raised.

I would ask you to do what you would have others do -- take a deep breath and think about the fact that there are other human beings on the other end of the line. The "I don't mean to be aggressive, but I think you're an asshole," is a pretty good counter-example to 'tone can be expressed explicitly without reference to content'; explicit markers are good, but word choice in the actual content counts more. Most people here haven't posted with you except in this thread; we don't -know- what your usual 'tone' is. Please don't go out of your way to twist the words of someone who is trying to understand you -- it makes you no friends and it weakens your other arguments by making people (e.g. me) consider the notion that you may be prolonging the conflict for the conflict's sake, or that you have agendas that we don't know about, which would, again, speaking for me, be a real bummer. If what you really want is for peple to be more civil and to avoid 'running over each other' in text, then I'm afraid that the only way to lead is by example.

Rather than asserting that "You can't convey tone by an overt statement indicating your tone" is equivalent to "You can't explain what you mean by explaining what you meant," perhaps you might find ways to meet your fellow posters half-way.

I am also a bit surprised to find you holding on to the notion of being 'dismissed' after nearly four hundred posts. You might argue that people are not 'listening' as closely as you wish they would, or are not being as self-critical as you might wish, or are taking the wrong meanings from what you've posted, but I hardly think a debate of this size constitutes being 'dismissed.' Being marginalised is another issue.

Edited to add: And of course, after I've gotten all wound up, I find that he's gone to bed in the interim. That'll teach me to be long-winded after I've promised myself I'd stay out of the discussion.