I guess the active posters bit reminded me of the old GO14 kerfuffle. Good times. (Not.)

Is it time for another round of the Talkiest Meat Awards?

(kidding, KIDDING)

We could talk Mike vs. Joel instead, if you like. :)

The lurkers support me in email.

This is going to have to be the name of a thread one of these days.

We could talk Mike vs. Joel instead, if you like. :)

Them's fightin' words!!!!1!

(collapses into a small fit of flamegiggles.)

Thanks, Franknotken, for the perspective.

This is going to have to be the name of a thread one of these days.

Maybe we can give the lurkers their own thread.

Wouldn't get much use though.

Them's fightin' words!!!!1!

My first experience with fandom kerfuffle was Mike vs. Joel. I wasn't even lurking anywhere, just checking out MST stuff on-line and you couldn't avoid hearing about it. Too. Much. Especially since I liked them both for different reasons (not to start a discussion...or is it?).

Although in some of the places I was poking around, it had gotten to the "we don't talk about that" stage of the game. Post-scorched earth, so to speak.

java cat and all others -

I marked all your FAQ updates/additions posts. Thanks.

I'll be working on it and posting some more stuff tonight.

We can choose the next thread name via preferential voting, all choices labeled by gerunds.

We can choose the next thread name via preferential voting, all choices labeled by gerunds.

Gar, isn't that a spoiler?

Others will or will not speak up for themselves.

The lurkers support me in email.

You know what, there ARE people who are more softspoken and there is nothing wrong with trying to take their wishes into account.

But overshadowing the majority of posters is a very small group of activist posters who make it their business to involve themselves in most issues.

Cue doomsday music.

Bless the activists. For without them, there would be no Phoenix. Activists make it possible for the other 99% to have a board. Alternately, without that 99%, there's be no discussions. Just a lot of thread titles, maintenance, good ideas, and no discussions.

These posters are currently directing the direction of the board by sheer pressure of persistence.

Not seeing the negative here, though I'm not sure that you're saying that it is. When people care deeply about an issue, they'll argue their side mercilessly. Or maybe that's just me. Or a few of us. If there's a heated debate, it's because several sides are arguing their viewpoint, no one here, I think, comes in here screaming at the moon until a Stompy walks by and says, "well, if you're going to stand around screaming all by yourself, you must be right. I'll just change the font to Courier.

It seems from an outside perspective that it has become more important to a small minority of posters to impose their feelings on the board than make the board better for the group.

I think Buffistas exists to state feelings and thoughts, and it's no imposition.

There seems little question that this situation has alienated - at least to some degree - both newbies and long-termers. Some newbies simply leave while others accept the artificial hierarchy of culture. Some veteran posters have been marginalized and driven away from posting by this same situation.

Zoe? Caroma? John H? Beej? No one is driven away, not really. One can hold ground and exist, here, if one wants. Unless banned. And then, well, you're fucked.

I don't think there's anything artificial about heirarchy, here or in any other community. There are hierarchies. And that's a good thing. We're a co-op, not a commune. And in order to co-operate, someone has to take charge of situations. It is usually the same few, but really, if you look at the lives of those people, they take charge in other situations. That's who they are. Those people can't take charge without being allowed to, or in most cases, asked to by the will of people that want to get something done, but aren't content in leadership or advocacy roles. This doesn't make leaders more, or less.

Others simply go on with their posting, but have given up trying to offer constructive input because they don't wish the long and largely fruitless debate to follow.

The Phoenix is fruit of long debate. And giving up? Must not have cared that much to begin with. If someone cares deeply, why give up? Since we vote, well, no one has to even take part in a debate if they don't want to. They can just go vote their mind. If teh lurkers are all supporting each other in email, it doesn't really matter how loud and long I argue, does it?

In the interest of total sincerity, I will acknowledge that it is also offered with the smallest hope that it may play a wee part in the effort to bring out or bring back input from that 'silent majority' who are still around, and who were instrumental in making this one of the strongest, most enlightened, accepting, tolerant and tightest knit communities anywhere on the web.

Are their secret meetings of which I'm unaware? It would seem that most of the people who built the board, are still here and active within it.

Am I on crack?