I'm sure you didn't mean it this way, but your post seems to imply that there's a secret subversive gang that tries to impose its will on the rest of the community. There isn't.

Except possibly MM and Clovis, although in their cases 'the rest of the community' translates to 'all sentient life'.

But they reflect the opinions of a broad range of the Buffistas - newbies, oldies and in-betweenies.

That, right there, is the assumption that leads to the problems. And as an aside, I would also suggest that it is an inadvertant, but minor, example of the type of misdirection I refer to above.

Anyway, I'm not looking for debate of my points - b/c they are simply my observations, and whether or not anyone agrees is out of my hands. The only thing I can confidently say is that they are true for me. Others will or will not speak up for themselves.

I'm sure you didn't mean it this way, but your post seems to imply that there's a secret subversive gang that tries to impose its will on the rest of the community. There isn't.

I didn't see that implication.

IMHO there are individuals who try to impose their will, but there's no organization to it and I didn't see any implication that there was. Nobody is saying there is some sort of Buffista Illuminati.

Rafmun, I read it a few times. You stated a lot of things I've been frustrated with very well. Thank you.

your post seems to imply that there's a secret subversive gang that tries to impose its will on the rest of the community.

Oh, you''ve met Clovis and my ferrets.

IMHO there are individuals who try to impose their will, but there's no organization to it and I didn't see any implication that there was.

Much better stated. Thank *you* Trudy for helping me clarify.

I disagree with Rafmun, most particularly on two problems. One, the enforcement mechanism, and two, the enforcement mechanism that already exists, which is "getting along."

Victor, are the ferrets typing?

It seems from an outside perspective that it has become more important to a small minority of posters to impose their feelings on the board than make the board better for the group.

It seems from an inside perspective, as I can't ever shut up in this thread, despite shock therapy and aversion techniques, that if you'd get a different set of names depending on who you asked. Perhaps that also depends on whose point seems to make the most sense to you/who you know best/any other random factors.

There will always be policy wonks debating the issues, but I strongly suspect that we have the interests of the board in mind, and that during what appears to be something of a shift in culture and focus, there will be clashing opinions.

If I wanted to impose my feelings on things from a personal level, I'd be completely apathetic. It's not like I staged a take back the thread march when I no longer felt comfortable in two of my long-time threads, I just unsubbed. It's not worth my time to try and make it comfortable for me in there on a personal level. I do, however, still care about the health of the board in the long term, and most of my concerns will arise from that.

(Also, board doesn't have mods. Has admins. The difference is important.)

IMHO there are individuals who try to impose their will, but there's no organization to it and I didn't see any implication that there was. Nobody is saying there is some sort of Buffista Illuminati.

I would add that whatever Rafmun's observational experience has been, I know those individuals are often at odds with each other, which indicates to me that there is a diversity in opinion.

Also this

That, right there, is the assumption that leads to the problems.

implies that "the problems" are a fact, which is a rather large assumption itself, IMO. I'm personally seeing growing pains combined with a lot of outside factors including major changes in the reason why the board is here in the first place. If that is a problem, it may be an inevitable/insoluable one.

But they reflect the opinions of a broad range of the Buffistas - newbies, oldies and in-betweenies.

That, right there, is the assumption that leads to the problems. And as an aside, I would also suggest that it is an inadvertant, but minor, example of the type of misdirection I refer to above.

I believe you said that a small group of active posters are imposing their wills on the board and this is an undesirable thing. My response indicated that there is diversity of opinion and diversity of wills which tend to reflect board sentiment among a broad range and type of posters. I took an alternate view on your "active posters" and put them in a positive light. You previously stated "there are even a few posters who will persist in misdirecting debate away from actual points..." Is that really what I did there?

Anyway, I'm not looking for debate of my points - b/c they are simply my observations, and whether or not anyone agrees is out of my hands. The only thing I can confidently say is that they are true for me. Others will or will not speak up for themselves.

As I stated before, I believe all posters here are sincere. But you can't sneeze in this thread without inviting some kind of debate.

IMHO there are individuals who try to impose their will, but there's no organization to it and I didn't see any implication that there was. Nobody is saying there is some sort of Buffista Illuminati.

You're right. I guess the active posters bit reminded me of the old GO14 kerfuffle. Good times. (Not.)

Others will or will not speak up for themselves.

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