Me too. I resent it. But it's not a big deal either.

No, it's not. Just one of those tiny papercutty issues.

This bothered me. (Oh no! Come back!)

Well, yeah. I hate that type of posting, especially since it's actually followed through on maybe one time in ten. But it seems to be SOP for many people whenever they get into a heated discussion online.

So do we modify our behavior around newbies, or do we toss them in and let them sink or swim?

That's the dilemma, isn't it?

So do we modify our behavior around newbies, or do we toss them in and let them sink or swim?

Well, I am advocating for modifying our behavior. If the poster is not actively insulting, or flamebait, and if the offense is generated as a matter of tone - then I especially think it's worth being gentler.

I was blunt after she asked what got people's backs up, specifically because she'd asked, and I meant it when I said it wouldn't be fair to not be blunt.

I think it takes time to learn our expectations about not only tone, but how to respond to criticism as well. People do learn to bite their tongues, or scroll past, or step away before responding. But I think that's a learned response, and I think people learn it by seeing that while we're blunt, we're fair. That we don't go out of our way to be punitive. I don't think we gave that impression in this instance (blunt but fair, non-punitive).

I'd like to point out in fairness to the non-new people that we have a lot of new people right now, and not every new person has received a cross-posted smackdown. While I see where we are a lot less patient than we were ages ago (once bitten, twice shy), we're not exactly out for newbie blood.

Yes, this.

I honestly don't think we have a problem here. The responses to Beej in Minearverse were, IMO, both called-for and diplomatic.

as a group we've been a little prickly lately, but I see it more as a cycle than as a change.

I would completely agree with this. The board as a whole has been more prone to kerfuffles as of late, probably due to a variety of reasons (lots of new posters, the season, U.S.-ian tension).

Not much more to add, I guess. I think that we need to keep in mind the fact that everyone is more prickly than usual, but I'm unsure about a direct behavior modification when dealing with new posters. I guess I lean more toward the side of "sink or swim", but that could be a reaction to how many new posters we have had recently. Enough of them have fit in to make me think that we're doing okay. Perhaps if we weren't getting such an influx, I would feel differently.

edit: Good lord, could I be any more wishy-washy? Okay - we're all prickly, and we need to remember that, but we have enough new posters who aren't doing belly-flops in the guac, so I think we're doing just fine for now.

Well, I am advocating for modifying our behavior. If the poster is not actively insulting, or flamebait, and if the offense is generated as a matter of tone - then I especially think it's worth being gentler.

David, if someone's tone is repeatedly bothering people, then something is wrong. If gentle attempts at correction, which, by the way, happened days ago in the F2F thread, haven't worked or cooled the tone, then what in heaven's name do you expect people to do? You can only turn the other cheek so much before your head starts to spin.

I think it takes time to learn our expectations about not only tone, but how to respond to criticism as well. People do learn to bite their tongues, or scroll past, or step away before responding. But I think that's a learned response, and I think people learn it by seeing that while we're blunt, we're fair.

But this is just basic, basic communication skills. This isn't something unique to here, or something that people should have to be gently trained to follow.

While I see where we are a lot less patient than we were ages ago (once bitten, twice shy), we're not exactly out for newbie blood.

I'm not sure how long ago these ages ago were. Reason being, I did a spectacular belly-flop into the guacamole at Table Talk. A couple of them, actually. I can say this: while no blood was shed, I also wasn't hugged and offered lollypops.

I think the attitude in Buffista threads has pretty much always been that people need to prove themselves before being adopted. Some people prove themselves in .5 nanoseconds; for others of us, it takes a couple weeks or months or years and a few times when we leave the conversation with our tails between our legs.

(And I think I'm coming around to the "beej overreacted" school of thought.)

I don't think we have a big problem. As people we are more hands-off to people we don't know-- but we expect the same respect. I'm not going to tell someone they don't need to sign all their posts, but I would get pretty pissed off if she started lecturing me about law. One of those things is cultural, and one is common sense.

Tone.

Here's the thing - there is no tone. Or, rather, there is what the reader perceives, and what the writer intended. And, because we can't hear tone, or see facial expression or body language, the reactions we have to posts are more a function of what we think the poster means than what the poster means. (Now, obviously, there are cases where a poster is quite blatent about what they intended, but that is perhaps the exception.)

This is why, instead of assuming that the 'tone' we've detected is what was intended, I think it's best to err on the side of patience, and perhaps ask for clarification of meaning.

I wasn't around for events last night, but --

The board does seem more prickly in some ways lately. I've noticed it most in the discussions of what should (or shouldn't) go in the Press and Beep Me threads.

Several possible reasons for this feeling. The board is about to go through a big change as the end of the Buffyverse appears nigh. In current events, the world feels on the cusp of -- some big changes in some direction or other. So, a lot of uncertainty, plus the end of a rough winter in many areas.

Other omens, too. Today at lunch, I saw 13 penguins flying upside down over Constitution Avenue.

I don't think we need any formal changes. But we should be aware of how we're coming across to others. And be aware that there's a difference between a newbie stepping in the guacamole, and a newbie flinging the guacamole around the room and ruining the freshly painted walls.

I see everybody's point on this, though I don't agree with all of them. I was one of the people whom Beej rubbed the wrong way, I generally tried to ignore it. I make no claims at my success in that regard, though.

But this is a good point...

I'd like to point out in fairness to the non-new people that we have a lot of new people right now, and not every new person has received a cross-posted smackdown.

As is this...

So do we modify our behavior around newbies, or do we toss them in and let them sink or swim?

...though like Plei, I'd say it falls somewhere in the middle.

Also, I suppose it's worth noting that I tipped over the guacamole a couple of times when I showed up, at least once that got me snarked about quite heavily. A good many of those people who snarked about me on that occasion are among my favorite people here, and are (from what I understand) pretty fond of me, too. So getting dressed down over guac-tipping doesn't automatically lead to ostracism, or permanent insult and humiliation on the part of the tipper.