msbelle,

I said, "Saw boards degenerate due to the "kumbayah, i was bullied when i was wee so i need to accept everyone and let's hold hands and sing joy to the world!" contingency."

Fay responded, "As one of the kumbayah crowd,"

And then went on to describe something completely different than holding hands and accepting everyone.

And so I clarifi-fucking-fied by saying, "Fay, there's benefit of the doubt, and then there's closing your eyes, blocking your ears, and coddling the deranged kid who is running around biting the other kids, and telling the bitten to suck it up, because Little Johnny has ADD and his dad drinks.

There's leeway, and then there's the point where maybe lil Johnny needs to be moved to the special school, because this one doesn't have the resources to handle Johnny's issues. "

And then Fay flipped the fuck out.

Allyson, cut it out with the cursing, please. No need to go there.

It's harder for me, anyway, to evaluate your argument when you're using swear words. It just makes me angry.

It just makes me angry.

It just occured to me, Nutty, that I swear my fucking head off instead of saying, "Fay, that post is making me so insane with violence and anger, I need to go away, for a very long time, or I'm going to say horrible things to you which I mean right now, but will feel terrible for saying in a week, because I won't mean them, then.

Nutty, sometimes your posts make me angry. I don't tell you. I'm unsure why. Except, I like cursing, and see nothing wrong with it.

Allyson, if your intent was clarification, clearly it failed with me.

If everyone else understood you to mean "Heck, Fay, what you just described isn't at all the kumbaya thing I was talking about", then I am evidently even more obtuse than I thought. It sounded nothing remotely like that to me.

I apologise for the misunderstanding.

And now I'm going to go do something else for a while, and try to calm down.

X post.

Don't feel you have to go away - I'm going to take a breather. But if you're feeling insanely angry and want to vent, go ahead. That's pretty much where you (inadvertently) pushed me to just now, which is why I posted that post, so it's fair enough.

And now I'm going to go do something else for a while, and try to calm down.

As am I.

Except, I like cursing, and see nothing wrong with it.

Um, but will you humor me please, Allyson? I find that cursing can cause a hostile environment, and I find that the posts you put up that have curses in them come off as hostile and rude, and hostility and rudeness have no place on this board.

I'm asking you to be civil, that's all.

Well it offends me Allyson, because I see you as taking a hostile tone.

You say

And then Fay flipped the fuck out.

and I say, Fay did nothing different than what you did.

Her post was obviously fueled by frustration. The difference (and I get that this is a bother some people, doesn't bother others thing) is that your posts seem (to me) aggresive and mean.

t not here at all, honestly

Nutty, I think I'd better apologise for having undoubtedly offended you umpteen times in the past, because I do swear like a trooper. FWIW "And then Fay flipped the fuck out" actually made me laugh out loud, which is a good thing. Because, yes, I really did flip out. I went from calm to foamingly murderous within the space of a few seconds. Irrationally, it seems. Go me with the failure to understand.

t /not here at all, honestly.

As an unrepentant kumbayaer myself I think it's better to discuss a banning pretty thoroughly before it's done-- particularly in ambiguous situations.

It's a bitch but it's, imho, ultimately worth doing.

Once again, I'm in the corner with Allyson and Plei. I think the desire to bend over backwards for the people who are causing trouble is really a slap in the face of the 400 other active posters [note: number pulled out of my ass, but I know it's more than 100] who DO make an effort to play by the rules.

I'm much more of the feeling that you warn them quickly and in no uncertain terms, and if they choose not to heed that, toss their asses.

Because -- and this is going to sound like "I told you so," except I *didn't,* back during the mieskie thing -- the two people who caused trouble and angst and caused US to eat up bandwidth by discussing it to death and beyond? Tossed. (Okay, I *know* mieskie chose to leave, but he would have been suspended, which is a temporary toss.)

We've seen TWICE now that discussing the trolls to death only causes HUGE friction between the people who DO play nice, and has NO effect on the trolls.

And that's why I am very anti-kumbayah.

Yes. This. I hate that we treat warnings like they're the end of the world. If someone is making 10 people nuts or causing people to no longer post in a certain thread, then there is a problem and it needs to be mentioned. It doesn't mean that they're going to get banned. Just that the effects of their bad behavior are going to be pointed out to them. I'd much rather see us warn sooner and save the truly heated debate for the considerably more serious step of suspension.

Bears repeating.