Saw boards degenerate due to the "kumbayah, i was bullied when i was wee so i need to accept everyone and let's hold hands and sing joy to the world!" contingency.

Has to be standards, and no one seems to want to standardize.

As one of the kumbayah crowd, I'm making no apologies for advocating giving people the benefit of the doubt and trying to understand their viewpoint. This is not the same as letting them walk all over you or the board. I'm distinguishing pretty firmly between condemning an individual poster and condemning the impact that they have upon the board, whether intentional or unintentional. Agreeing that a situation surrounding/caused by any given Buffistina Monkeypants needs resolving isn't the same as saying that the BMP in question is a bastard.

Of course, this is why I'm a kindergarten teacher.

Okay, but then if we choose "we knows it when we sees it" as a way of identifying board etiquette violations, then we will churn the same wheels over and over and over in mieske and zoe situations. We would have been better off, IMO, booting both of them weeks before it got to the boiling point. Really, they're the only two folks I've ever truly wanted booted, and could identify them immediately as Trouble. mieske was a Big Boy, and zoe was a Geo. They fit into the same sort of molds of two Bronze bezoars. It was like watching a car crash in slow motion.

I'm not sure if I'm creating more of a problem than currently exists, but I guess I come from a place where "etiquette and rulz" aren't as much about preventing a problem, per se, but of giving an asshole the rope in which s/he hangs him or herself.

I'm with Allyson and with askye and the rest. I prefer a simpler document rather than a longer filk version. It won't save us from trolls, but it will make it easier for people who do want to be One of Us to get it.

This famous quote comes to mind, “I can’t define pornography, but I know what it is when I see it.” I don’t think we can define inappropriate un-Buffistalike behavior, but we really do know it when we see it. Reading the FAQ and the Etiquette pages will not change a jerk into a personable Buffista. Most people will just leave if this place does not suit their needs or fit their personality. For those who do not have the good sense to leave a place where they clearly do not fit in, we are establishing procedures to cluestick them.

Fay, there's benefit of the doubt, and then there's closing your eyes, blocking your ears, and coddling the deranged kid who is running around biting the other kids, and telling the bitten to suck it up, because Little Johnny has ADD and his dad drinks.

There's leeway, and then there's the point where maybe lil Johnny needs to be moved to the special school, because this one doesn't have the resources to handle Johnny's issues.

Also, to catch up with the xposts that result from doing laundry at the same time as posting...

I Totally Agree with Allyson that it is painfully obvious in short order when we have a real problem and it would benefit the community to deal with it quickly.

I Totally Agree with Allyson that it is painfully obvious in short order when we have a real problem and it would benefit the community to deal with it quickly.

I have to concede what is painfully obvious to some, is not so much to others. And it's kind of difficult, and makes me look snooty to constantly say, "Yeah, that happened at the Bronze four years ago. Cut the fucking cord before it gets out of hand."

Because, as Fay says, benefit of doubt. My tolerance is lower, i realize.

As an unrepentant kumbayaer myself I think it's better to discuss a banning pretty thoroughly before it's done-- particularly in ambiguous situations.

It's a bitch but it's, imho, ultimately worth doing.

I'd like Julie's post added to the end of the etiquette page, not because I think we need it, but because it states so beautifully what we're about.

I don't think we need more codified rules, I think we need a more codified process for enforcing them, and I think the proposal in Light Bulbs will help up immensely with that if it passes.

The trouble isn't recognizing trolls, it's doing something about it right away instead of waiting for the problem to solve itself.

It's a bitch but it's, imho, ultimately worth doing.

I disagree. It tears the board apart.