I thought it was a place where everyone could say whatever they wanted as long as they did it with respect and civility.

To a large degree, it is that kind of place. The difference is in how other people react, no? I think everyone's had the experience of having a brilliant idea that no one else thinks is brilliant, and that's just kind of the way it goes. (Seriously, for a good time, ask Lyra Jane about the first time she proposed a Natter thread.) I just think you've had that experience more often than most people, and I can see where it would drag a person down.

Wolfram, I want to tell you What Deena Said. I think you're a good guy. I think you're smart and articulate and can be witty. I want to know you better. When I know you better I'll be able to hear the wry grin in your typeface, or the concern in a throwaway comment.

I want to see you in another thread. I want to know how you feel about the fact that your wife will be having a little wolfie in June, and whether or not you're prepared to name him Buffistino Monkeypants Wolfram. I want to know if you like practicing law and what kind you practice and whether or not you give change to bums on the street. I want to get to know you outside of preferential voting or revisiting old issues.

Deena, I swear you've made me tear up. Truth is I've posted in Natter, Angel, Buffy, Smallville and others and even when I don't get a chance to post, I read almost everything. I've posted more than I should be, but I haven't gotten that personal. I guess I've Bureaucracied too much for my own good (social capital-wise).

Since you asked, it just so happens my oldest is already named Monkeypants, so that's out. And I'll save more of the natter for some other thread like, ummmm, Natter. ;)

I want to know how you feel about the fact that your wife will be having a little wolfie in June, and whether or not you're prepared to name him Buffistino Monkeypants Wolfram. I want to know if you like practicing law and what kind you practice and whether or not you give change to bums on the street.

Hey, this is discrimination against the Natter-challenged! (Seriously, I've seen him a lot in the Angel threads.)

I think the problem (such as there is, and I've never had one personally with anything Wolf has posted) isn't so much the suggestions -- plenty of people suggest plenty of things, and usually it doesn't really matter. I think the difference is that Wolfram tries to "sell" his ideas as the One True Way, and that gets people's dander up -- not because his ideas are bad ones, but because people may feel a decision on the issue has already been made and not really want to discuss it further, let alone argue the point logically. Also, I think he tends to push for more change than a lot of people are comfortable with, especially those of you who really envisioned the place from scratch while we were at WX.

This is the thing, wolf -- I know there are policies here I would like to change, and if the time seems right, I mention them. But I am one person, and, unless I'm riding a serious zeitgeist, I am Not Gonna Get My Way. It doesn't matter how cute I am, or how well I argue my logical point -- I just end up looking like a stampy-footing fool. The trick is insinuating your idea into the flow of the place, so people start treating it as an idea that could work, not just Bad!Scary!Change.

I'm thinking about Press. You know, in some ways I'd like to strike the banned person from the book of the Buffistas, and never speak of that person again. But in other ways, I think it's worthwhile to announce a momentous event, to make sure everyone's aware of it, to put it down as a Thing That Happened, and is resolved, and is ready to become history.

And then we signify that the matter is closed, and those who want to may refuse ever to speak that name again.

It's that too. Nobody's told you to stop posting. Not once.

I know, I was just answering Allyson's question.

I just think you've had that experience more often than most people, and I can see where it would drag a person down.

Only proportionally, I mean, considering my short time here. But you're right.

Wolfram, I want to tell you What Deena Said. I think you're a good guy. I think you're smart and articulate and can be witty. I want to know you better. When I know you better I'll be able to hear the wry grin in your typeface, or the concern in a throwaway comment.

What can I say, it's true. I'm pretty faceless right now, and I'm going to make more of an effort to change that, or less of an effort to change other things.

I want to wish all who celebrate it a Happy Passover, and I'm going to be dark for a few days.

I've posted in Natter, Angel, Buffy, Smallville and others and even when I don't get a chance to post, I read almost everything.

t whine

Dang, always when I'm somewhere else, I suppose. Um, I want to know how many you've got now. I think I'll have to catch up in Natter. Do you know how HARD that is?

t /whine

I SO want to post a smiley face or more hugs or some sort of blasted curly thing. I'm refraining, womanfully.

I was against banings being posted in Press, but I am not coming up with a good way to articulate my reason why. Something along the lines of - if it is a concern to a member they are going to find out it happened. It just seems enough to me to cover it in Bureaucracy. Like one place to keep the unpleasantness. I had a good reason at one point, but I forgot what it was.

What Laura said.

I work with lawyers and I think Wolfram posts like one. I can see how it could sound terse or ascerbic or something but I think he's made it clear that there is no nasty intent.

What can I say, it's true. I'm pretty faceless right now, and I'm going to make more of an effort to change that, or less of an effort to change other things.

Fwiw, sometimes I agree with you, sometimes I don't agree with you, but I think you're a valuable member of the community. I don't want to be in a place where everyone has the same opinions on everything.

Had I virtual chocolate chip cookies, I would be offering them around right now.

eta

Also? What Deena says. Yes. That. And I guess it's true that you tend to post (when I've happened along at the same time as you) in a somewhat distanced/professional/abstract style - which may well be the source of the jarring that there's been. Just that people don't feel like they know you you all that well. Maybe.

But, y'know - I'm a middleclass Brit. We're big on that whole 'reserved' thing.

Wow.

So, um...yeah. Wow.

Hugs to the stompies and everyone caught in the crossfire.

Dana took the words right off my fingertips...