cancels Qatarian visa

The last vote I counted, I think about 5 lurkers voted. And I think I knew some of them from former TT days and others because they donated money for the Pheonix. So I think those voters are invested but shy. I see no way to cut out random lurkers who want to take over Buffistas (which I don't think would happen-- I think asshats would post) without cutting out those people who I think are just shy or busy (think of katefate, too busy to post).

What bothers me is that there are many Buffistas that were so frustated with the process we went to to get to the vote, or the fact that we vote, that they won't vote. It was sort of what made me want to go into a room by myself and come up with the perfect system, because the discussion bothered people so much.

Interesting article. It hit upon so many things we've discussed in Bureaucracy over the years: creating rules to create rules, the need for structure/constitution, pure democracy/anarchy/libertarian stances vs. status conferred by longevity, activity, group contribution, the effect of scale on the group dynamic and discussion.

All Buffistas Are Foamy is a part of our culture. As noted, it's a social lubricant and part of our style or etiquette. It helps elevate the tone and creates a welcoming atmoshpere. Civility has always been a high value for this group, and I think that's a bit of culture which we've tried to encode a bit with rules to enforce it. The article notes that the best structure is both formal and informal. That's something that the long time sysops/admins pushed for - not making the rules too specific.

There is and has always been some tension between the folks who enjoy discussion of structure and rules versus the folks that find any infringement on their actions/words very itchy making. Frankly, we've handled that very well. This tension will always be there, will never be resolved one way or the other and that is for the best. Except when it makes us tense.

I think Jess phrased it best by noting that there are folks who have earned their status within the group by their contributions, but this isn't formalized and it's considered a bit rude to insist upon your status. But it doesn't go unacknowledged either. It's a bit of social sleight of hand which both allows that functional status (and celebrates it), while encouraging a fairly level social field for interaction. That seems like a positive to me.

Cats to become a rabbit should gather immediately now here

Sophia, so curious about your tagline.

I am recalling the frustration of early May, and I'm recalling that I was then and continue to be a little mystified by it. Can those who expressed doubts then explain how they came to such a head, so suddenly? Because my perception of the discussion was that suddenly everyone wasn't just exhausted with the last parts of building new rules, they were disenchanted, and it was starting to affect how they saw everything bureaucratic. I had more that one person say to me (some public, some private) that they thought the new-thread-creation process didn't work, and I was like, How can it work? We've never tried it!

Now that we've tried it, are Bureaucrats everywhere satisfied with the new-thread-creation process? (I think it worked fine, voting hijinks notwithstanding.) Are people feeling better, generally, about Bureaucracy, or is the recent silence a "I can't deal with this" silence?

Just, you know, taking the temperature of the thread, hoping, like Sophia, to derive perfect solutions and be all things to all people.

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Qatar! That's just... wow. So cool.

What was interesting to me about the tension in Bureaucracy in May was that I skipped it. I was too busy dealing with stuff in my own life, and I also felt like the things I'd most been invested in had already been set up (like the basic voting).

So from my perspective, it was mostly the kind of friction buildup we've gotten whenever we rub on one issue too hard and too long. The virtue of the PF diaspora was simply that it stopped the talk enough for the raw parts to heal up.

That kind of tension has happened several times before and it's one of the primary reasons we went to voting at all. To stop talking about stuff. Because we wanted to be able to table things.

Nutty-- re tag--

There was a web-site posted, badly translated from Japanese, selling costumes for ones cat.

Are people feeling better, generally, about Bureaucracy, or is the recent silence a "I can't deal with this" silence?

I don't think it's the latter...

Not everybody who was disenchanted by the folderol earlier in the year has returned, but many of us have, and it seems that for many, the disenchantment is not as bad as it once was.

I think most of us are feeling better about bureaucracy, and the process. To hazard a guess, I'd say it's because of our with Hostage Rocket, our forced exile, and our final triumphant return. Like any other crisis or disaster, we've all come out the other side with a renewed perspective, and realized that, despite any doubts we may have had, it seems to be working okay.

I'd agree with Sean on this. It was painful getting through some things. But the break helped.

Also, I felt from the start that the process was going to be very front-loaded. Once we got through the initial matters, there really isn't going to be that much that we need to put through this process. We're over the hump, and enjoying the smoother ride.