Uh, Kat and I have the most unpopular stance in the place, and I feel not like an ass. The thread is not a Wonderfalls thread, as I've stated about three million, five hundred, and eighty seven times, but an all-purpose Tim thread.

You have no reason to feel like an ass for opposing the creation of the Tim thread

This sort of comment tends to raise tempers. What Sean feels is up to him.

This just contributes to the feeling that if you dare to disagree with the popular stance people will think you're an ass for making a fuss. Is that really how we want things to work?

IMHO, that is real life. People talk. After awhile, when it becomes clear that the talkers can't agree, they say something like "Let's agree to disagree" or they change the subject.

In real life, when a relative of mine won't stop making a fuss, I think he's a jerk. (Assuming life, limb, or money isn't at stake.)

FWIW, Sean, I wasn't sure what your original opposition was to the thread.

FWIW, Sean, I think your no-tim-thread argument had some merit, and I'm sorry to hear you're deleting it (or have done so). Not least because you've got a right to say it, and I don't want you to feel pressured not to say something just because you think it'll be unpopular.

And you know what? I would feel disenfranchised if we went off and created threads willynilly without talking it out first. I want to talk it out, and see if, you know, we can compromise on things, or at least I can get a better understanding of why people think differently on an issue. Voting is just a formal expression of the informal caucusing we used to do. (Probably not much of a net gain/loss of posts, either.)

You know what else? I'm confused. I've seen several different people in the past 3-4 days talking as if we're in the middle of a crisis. Are we in the middle of a crisis and I just haven't noticed, or is this tired-with-the-slow-process talking, or is there something else going on that is making Bureau/Light Bulb feel less inviting or functional for people? Basically, I guess I'm wondering what specifically has triggered the Bureau/Light Bulb pessimism I've seen in the past 4 days, which seems to be a different and far more specific pessimism than generally. Anyone want to enlighten me?

Speaking of Minear...the Firefly thread is heating up again. If this keeps up, we'll need a Firefly 3 thread. :)

And I still suggest the name "Minearvana" for the proposed Minear thread.

Any other suggestions for a name, or should we wait for the vote?

My part in it was that I was getting frustrated at the length of the process, at the process itself, and the fact that I'm hungry and really want Kentucky Fried Chicken but can't have it lest my ass expand to epic proportions.

Also, somewhere back there was "why is Allyson so damned cranky about stuff?" and Wolfram and I butting heads.

It's all my fault, really.

I should be flogged.

Hard boiled egg rolled in salt

And I still suggest the name "Minearvana" for the proposed Minear thread.

I love that, but first must pass through the gauntlet and get it voted in, which should be sometime before 2064, I think.

Sean, with all due respect, this really bugs me.

Man, if you're not upsetting one person with your stance, you're upsetting somebody else. ;)

Okay, first, sorry for bugging you on my position switch. Understand that I'm not ap[ologizing for the act, I'm just apologizing for any adverse reaction it may cause you.

Also, in apologizing for my opposition to the Tim thread, it's the same thing - I don't feel like an ass for having opposed it, I feel like an ass because of the way I opposed it, if that makes any sense.

I am not backing down because I feel outnumbered or anything, I'm backing down because I've changed my mind.

(although I can't refer to them because you've removed them, which squicks me as well since it makes my post which agrees with you completely irrelevant.)

My apologies for that, too. And you're right, it affects your post. You should be aware that I still have the post saved in its entirety. I took it down because that's not the discussion we're having right now. I will put it up again when that discussion comes up, along with which parts of that argument I no longer support, and reasons I have changed my mind.

Again, I'm sorry for making your post look irrelevant. I just felt it would be better to repost it at the appropriate time, and I will do so. It may not have been the best way to go about it, but it's what I did.

You have every right to change your position on this, but you now make it seem like anyone who agreed with your original position is also an ass.

I can see where this comes from, so let me state again that I feel like an ass for the way I said things, not for what I said.

I have more to say, but I have to disappear for about an hour. I'll be back.

Are we in the middle of a crisis and I just haven't noticed, or is this tired-with-the-slow-process talking, or is there something else going on that is making Bureau/Light Bulb feel less inviting or functional for people? Basically, I guess I'm wondering what specifically has triggered the Bureau/Light Bulb pessimism I've seen in the past 4 days, which seems to be a different and far more specific pessimism than generally. Anyone want to enlighten me?

I would like to know this as well. And I don't think it's all Allyson's fault.

Are we in the middle of a crisis and I just haven't noticed,

I'm speaking for me, not anybody else. I feel exhausted and discouraged. I am sick to the bone of attempts to fix Buffistas. Because it all starts out sensible and before I know it people are trying to fix things I don't think are broken, worrying about evils people might perpetuate and then arguing about what to do.

I'm tired of fixing us. I would be profoundly grateful if we stopped trying for a couple of months.