Hard boiled egg rolled in salt

And I still suggest the name "Minearvana" for the proposed Minear thread.

I love that, but first must pass through the gauntlet and get it voted in, which should be sometime before 2064, I think.

Sean, with all due respect, this really bugs me.

Man, if you're not upsetting one person with your stance, you're upsetting somebody else. ;)

Okay, first, sorry for bugging you on my position switch. Understand that I'm not ap[ologizing for the act, I'm just apologizing for any adverse reaction it may cause you.

Also, in apologizing for my opposition to the Tim thread, it's the same thing - I don't feel like an ass for having opposed it, I feel like an ass because of the way I opposed it, if that makes any sense.

I am not backing down because I feel outnumbered or anything, I'm backing down because I've changed my mind.

(although I can't refer to them because you've removed them, which squicks me as well since it makes my post which agrees with you completely irrelevant.)

My apologies for that, too. And you're right, it affects your post. You should be aware that I still have the post saved in its entirety. I took it down because that's not the discussion we're having right now. I will put it up again when that discussion comes up, along with which parts of that argument I no longer support, and reasons I have changed my mind.

Again, I'm sorry for making your post look irrelevant. I just felt it would be better to repost it at the appropriate time, and I will do so. It may not have been the best way to go about it, but it's what I did.

You have every right to change your position on this, but you now make it seem like anyone who agreed with your original position is also an ass.

I can see where this comes from, so let me state again that I feel like an ass for the way I said things, not for what I said.

I have more to say, but I have to disappear for about an hour. I'll be back.

Are we in the middle of a crisis and I just haven't noticed, or is this tired-with-the-slow-process talking, or is there something else going on that is making Bureau/Light Bulb feel less inviting or functional for people? Basically, I guess I'm wondering what specifically has triggered the Bureau/Light Bulb pessimism I've seen in the past 4 days, which seems to be a different and far more specific pessimism than generally. Anyone want to enlighten me?

I would like to know this as well. And I don't think it's all Allyson's fault.

Are we in the middle of a crisis and I just haven't noticed,

I'm speaking for me, not anybody else. I feel exhausted and discouraged. I am sick to the bone of attempts to fix Buffistas. Because it all starts out sensible and before I know it people are trying to fix things I don't think are broken, worrying about evils people might perpetuate and then arguing about what to do.

I'm tired of fixing us. I would be profoundly grateful if we stopped trying for a couple of months.

Betsy has a point, as does Nutty. But I tend to miss nuance, so maybe the sky is falling and I just don't see it.

It's all my fault, really.

Allyson, quit hogging all the fault! I'll take my half too, and I apologize to the board for any recent handwringings I might have caused.

I can see where this comes from, so let me state again that I feel like an ass for the way I said things, not for what I said.

Fair enough. Sorry to come down so hard on you.

I am sick to the bone of attempts to fix Buffistas.

Despite what some people seem to think about me, I don't see the Buffistas as broken. I agree that the tweaking of decision-making has gotten way out of hand, but I think it's mostly at an end. There will always be disagreements. The trick is keeping them good-natured and short-lived.

I'm tired of fixing us. I would be profoundly grateful if we stopped trying for a couple of months.

Word.

As we were not especially broken in the first place. We keep picking at (metaphorical) threads until the whole freaking sweater's just a mess of yarn tangled around our hands and heads and feet.

We were constantly picking at metaphorical threads even before voting was voted on. The hope is that now we have a method (i.e. voting) to stop picking at a particular metaphorical thread before we start to pick on the next one. It's not as much of an improvement as I would have hoped, but I think it is an improvement.

Also, in apologizing for my opposition to the Tim thread, it's the same thing - I don't feel like an ass for having opposed it, I feel like an ass because of the way I opposed it, if that makes any sense.

Speaking for me (me me), Sean, thank you for that. I came away from some of that conversation feeling disproportionately slapped down. And that was far more in regard to the way you were responding to people, rather than what you were saying. I ended up in a place where I could sense a lot of hostility from you, wasn't sure where it had come from, assumed it was backstory or backchannel I had no idea about and decided to bow quietly out and leave by the backdoor.

And yes, it was my choice to back down rather than step (or speak) up, but somehow it's.. comforting to read that you realise now how you were behaving then, and that given a second shot you would go about it differently.

As we were not especially broken in the first place. We keep picking at (metaphorical) threads until the whole freaking sweater's just a mess of yarn tangled around our hands and heads and feet.

That’s exactly how I think of it too! Have you ever patchworked? Ninety five percent of it is routine. Ninety five percent is straightforward, don't think about it, get it done. Cut, piece, sew, next. It's the other five percent, where corners interact, where the tension must be perfect, where the grain must be prepared, that matters. That five percent requires one hundred and ten percent of my attention.

Sometimes, I feel like the Buffistas give one hundred and ten percent attention to the entire quilt. And that's the bit that takes away all the fun. In my experience, going with the flow can achieve a solution just as affectively and with less damage, than the focusing can. And sometimes, just the act of overfocusing can cause problems.

Some things, in sewing, can be fixed. The line wasn't straight? Take a second crack at it, sure. But sometimes, the tiny little deviation is preferable to the mess we make of the fabric by unpicking and retrying and over-sewing and unpicking and retrying. That's when the fabric gets irreparably damaged. And I sit there thinking, you know, in hindsight, I could have lived with the wee little bump in the line that no one would have noticed, because overall? The patterns, colours, textures and flow of the entire quilt is a thing of beauty. And that makes it impossible for me to think that one little flaw is anything but character.

Buffistas have a lot of character. This is a good thing.

Okay, back from lunch with some further comments...

FWIW, Sean, I wasn't sure what your original opposition was to the thread.

Well, I can and will recount my opposition when that discussion comes, but at least part of it was me being Hostile McCrankyPants. That's that part I'm sorry about.

I'm sorry to hear you're deleting it (or have done so). Not least because you've got a right to say it, and I don't want you to feel pressured not to say something just because you think it'll be unpopular.

Don't worry, Nutty. I didn't delete it because I felt pressured. The only reason I deleted it was because I mistakenly jumped the gun in Lightbulbs and felt awkward having this rant which was relevant to a discussion we weren't having sticking out there.

I still have the entire thing in its original form, it waits only for the Tim discussion's turn.

I'm tired of fixing us. I would be profoundly grateful if we stopped trying for a couple of months.

I'll chime in with a big ol' wrod here, too. I'm all for the idea of all of us putting the bureaucracy down and slowly backing away for a bit.

It's all my fault, really.

Allyson, quit hogging all the fault! I'll take my half too, and I apologize to the board for any recent handwringings I might have caused.

Don't forget to share, you two. There's plenty of fault for everyone to get some.

Fair enough. Sorry to come down so hard on you.

Now worries, Wolf. I knew what you were saying.

We keep picking at (metaphorical) threads until the whole freaking sweater's just a mess of yarn tangled around our hands and heads and feet.

Yeah, but we'd all be naked in a giant tangle of yarn, and make for a cute picture for email newbies to spam everybody in their address book with, because they don't know we've all seen that picture twenty-five times already.