Is that question directed to me, Ken? It seems like you're asking other people what they think my opinion might be.

His use of 2nd vs. 3rd person may be a bit confusing (sorry, Ken!) but I think he's asking you, Allyson.

Allyson - Sorry, yes, Jon B is right (do I dare go back and review my poor grammar? whoops, just did - yikes. I think any editing job on that would just make things less coherent, so I'll let it stand), it was a question posed to you.

And, as I just spent way too much time trying to re-phrase it, and realized I couldn't frame it any way I felt comfortable posting (in that I can't quite get my point to make sense even to me) I guess, question withdrawn. If anyone really wants me to elaborate, I will make another attempt, but it was more a rhetorical question than anything else. And I think incoherent rhetorical questions are of little use.

Ken, don't worry about appearing to be rude at all, just spit it out, even if it seems mean or something. You've tried really hard to politely ask me something, which I appreciate, and my feelings won't be hurt by a lack of tact.

What I think I am reading is, that you are asking me if I think there is a problem with the board (culturally, not technically) and if so, what I believe that problem is, and how I would solve it if I could.

Is that accurate?

That's how I read it, Allyson.

Allyson and I have discussed it. This is what I said on my end of the discussion:

The concern I have for the community is that in order to serve the needs of minority opinion or as a way to comfort the confrontation-avoidant, we create a community where we allow people to walk all over us. Then what happens is that people in the community feel like the needs of the troll, the desires of the troll, are held in higher esteem than those of the community members in good standing.

The solution is to move to a situation where there are clear rules and people to enforce them. This community enforcing it doesn't work when people are so conflict-averse.

I think the circular discussions we end up having are damaging to the community, stirring up a lot of very bad feelings.

I guess I don't really need a metaphor. We are a posting board, not a party, not a city, not a family. We have rules. They should be enforced. The only question is by whom.

Uh, what Kat said. Mine had a lot more swear words.

Yes, Allyson, that was what I was trying to ask. And I think the question is one that goes to heart of "What are the Buffistas?", which makes me realize it's more of a general question, and not one that should necessarily be aimed at any one poster. I guess I asked you because of all the water under the bridge with regards to fandom. I DO tend to agree with your comments on convergence of board etiquette, social interaction and tolerance of suspected trolls. That said, I think the constant hand-wringing on issues around here is a good thing, as things seem to get resolved eventually, and in a positive way. And I still feel my point isn't clear. It's not that I'm necessarily trying to spare feelings - I'm just of several minds on the subject and not expressing things in a way I'm happy with right now, so I'm trying to err on the side of not posting.

And I may just be re-wording myself into further incoherence. Damn, I hate upcoming Mondays.

That said, I think the constant hand-wringing on issues around here is a good thing, as things seem to get resolved eventually, and in a positive way.

I totally disagree. I can't disagree more strongly. The hand wringing about Z, where I was immediately told I was "Out of Line" and then later called "Orwellian" was not a positive experience for me. In fact, that level of "hand-wringing" has made me really distrustful, uncomfortable, and pissed. Which, in all honesty, stems from being hurt. Because the "hand-wringing" did look like people saying things like "out of line" didn't give a shit about all of the other people who were upset by the poster's behavior. (and for the sake of saving on my therapy bills, means that my feelings were hurt because I felt like those people who did wring their hands basically said, "FUCK YOU!" to what I felt).

In other words, that my feelings were invalidated and I was basically told I was overreacting.

Hence, not so much with the positive outcome for me.

In other words, that my feelings were invalidated and I was basically told I was overreacting.

In all fairness (and recall I agree with you on the Z issue and posted as much) the people on the other side of the fence felt that their feelings were invalidated, too.