I like the rambly people. I like the cool analytical people too.

Oh, Cindy, I did know the original Bronze was a WB board, or whatever channel Buffy used to be on. I can't keep all these newfangled TV channels straight. Get offa my lawn! And I hope I'm not coming from a perspective of naivete - I lurked obsessively on surviviorsucks during the first, and then second, survivor (in my defense, in the early days it was hilarious!), and there were some fandom gone kablooie issues, boy howdy. But in my experience what is hardest to cope with is sudden popularity - and we survived Firefly pretty well, despite a lot of fear, so I'm on the sunny side.

But in my experience what is hardest to cope with is sudden popularity - and we survived Firefly pretty well, despite a lot of fear, so I'm on the sunny side.

I agree, but still being in N. England, you're not going to get me to tell you when it's sunny (because Dickie Albert will prove me wrong).

A question for Allyson -

Actually, despite having disagreed with her critical opinions (a gross generaliztion, but I think I'm closer to ted r on Buffy and Plei on Angel on how I feel, which I suspect is NOT Allyson's opinion) of the last couple of seasons of Buffy/Angel (and I seriously think if the TRAIN JOB had aired in its correct position, she'd see the light on that episode too :), I am curious what she thinks is going wrong here at Buffistas, or if she even thinks something's going wrong here. I get the IMPRESSION that things aren't to her liking (and I mean that as in a worried about the board way, rather than on a personal level). I mean, there are disagreements (the last round of that mieskie saga, et al being a prime example), but they seem to get resolved.

Yes - I am upset that John H. is gone (if that is a permanent). And if R. Lizard's "ex-Biffista" tag that Daniel mentioned is board related as opposed to the fact that she's got real life issues going on, I'm upset about that too (not that I'm not upset that she has real life issues, but that's outside the scope of the current discussion). BUT...

(as Pee Wee said, everybody's got a big BUT)

I think in the only terms possible for this kind of environment (and speaking as someone who joked about the scary internet people when I de-lurked, believe me, I wouldn't have de-lurked just anywhere. Or pretty much anywhere else, or, for that matter, anywhere else - period!), the system seems to be working. Ugly confrontations, yes! Growing pains, yes! But these thing seem to get resolved with as minimum an amount of fuss as is going to be possible under the circumstances.

But back to my original point, I'm just sincerely curious what Allyson would see be done differently, or what she feels isn't working. I like getting the perspective of experience, but I am also leary of people that have been bitten and therefore (possibly) forever shy. The perspecitve is useful, if not always to be followed, in other words.

Am I making any sense?

ETA some clarification - and still not sure I got it right.

Wolfram I think it is more my interpertation, it seems like more people say your post as humourous and I didn't so the problem was in the way I saw it.

Is that question directed to me, Ken? It seems like you're asking other people what they think my opinion might be.

His use of 2nd vs. 3rd person may be a bit confusing (sorry, Ken!) but I think he's asking you, Allyson.

Allyson - Sorry, yes, Jon B is right (do I dare go back and review my poor grammar? whoops, just did - yikes. I think any editing job on that would just make things less coherent, so I'll let it stand), it was a question posed to you.

And, as I just spent way too much time trying to re-phrase it, and realized I couldn't frame it any way I felt comfortable posting (in that I can't quite get my point to make sense even to me) I guess, question withdrawn. If anyone really wants me to elaborate, I will make another attempt, but it was more a rhetorical question than anything else. And I think incoherent rhetorical questions are of little use.

Ken, don't worry about appearing to be rude at all, just spit it out, even if it seems mean or something. You've tried really hard to politely ask me something, which I appreciate, and my feelings won't be hurt by a lack of tact.

What I think I am reading is, that you are asking me if I think there is a problem with the board (culturally, not technically) and if so, what I believe that problem is, and how I would solve it if I could.

Is that accurate?

That's how I read it, Allyson.

Allyson and I have discussed it. This is what I said on my end of the discussion:

The concern I have for the community is that in order to serve the needs of minority opinion or as a way to comfort the confrontation-avoidant, we create a community where we allow people to walk all over us. Then what happens is that people in the community feel like the needs of the troll, the desires of the troll, are held in higher esteem than those of the community members in good standing.

The solution is to move to a situation where there are clear rules and people to enforce them. This community enforcing it doesn't work when people are so conflict-averse.

I think the circular discussions we end up having are damaging to the community, stirring up a lot of very bad feelings.

I guess I don't really need a metaphor. We are a posting board, not a party, not a city, not a family. We have rules. They should be enforced. The only question is by whom.