You know, it's my issue and I probably shouldn't have said anything.

it's my issue and I probably shouldn't have said anything.

I disagree. Clarity is good. Knowing reasons for attitude and behavior is good. Talking stuff out--isn't that why we're here? Any approach to understanding can only be beneficial, I think.

I though Wolfram was being a total Buffista - word-obsessed, pedantic, fascinated by differences between US and Commonwealth usage, and tongue-in-cheekly so. (Gah - remember the two whole days on fork usage, let alone the various grammar debacles?!).

I also have to say I strongly disagree with Allyson, both on her pessimism (as I see it) about the future of the board and about her frustration with endless talk. Endless talk is what we do; we do need to work on making it less about disagreements that get personalized and more about understanding different philosophies. I think the last couple of days have been very eye-opening in this respect for me and, my impression, others. And the fragmentation of the Bronze was clearly traumatizing, but we are in a very different situation - despite inadvertant advertising, we are much less visible (the Bronze was an 'official' UPN board, no?) and also we are at a very different place in the cycle of Buffy's public visibilty (I'm guessing, but did the Bronze break down in Season 2 or 3?). I think the Buffistas can do it (by which I mean whatever we want to do), and do it our way, and without a benevolent junta. Though, if we appointed a Supreme Ruler I'd want it to be Nutty, 'cause I'm all about the nepotism. Swiss bank accounts, baybee!

Gee, maybe we should have one of those boxes next to the posting box with winkies available to click. I better not get any seconds on this

I tend to take things rather literally instead of seeing the tongue in cheek humor on board. I can get it most of the times but at others I become strangely literally. I do better in person.

I think we all do, Askye. This humor, she is a slippery little devil.

I've never had a problem with Wolfram's posting style, FWIW. I think the difference is I've spent a lot of time on boards where a coolly analytical, questioning everything style is the norm, so I never read it as antagonistic.

(Of course, that's partly temper envy on my part--I'd give anything to be coolly analytical in an argument instead of the sputtering, boiled over bundle of rage and righteous indignation I actually turn into.)

Susan - fwiw, I always see you as cool, and objective.

Some of us ramble

Whoo! Thanks for the shout-out, Beverly. :)

Although I agree with Cindy that we are naval-gazing, I so like hearing other's thoughts on the metaphor-- because it does help me realize why people disagree with me.

I like hearing the metaphors, too. I like your club one the best so far, Sophia. I'm sorry if my post implied they should stop. I wrote that sucker a few times this morning, and the thought I had in mind (I can't cite which post inspired it) was that I think we're starting to treat every difference in mindset as though it's a problem seeking a solution.

In part, that's probably because I am seeing a huge spectrum, with some posts as falling on one end that's labeled too many (or 'these specific') cooks spoil the broth, and I'm interpreting others as falling way far away on the other end of the spectrum, with sort of an ACLU angle - everyone should be treated the same always. I fall way in the middle of those two ends (whether or not they're any actual Buffista's specific ends (which look fine in their jeans) or not). Maybe I'm seeing conflict when there's really just a sharing of ideas.

And the fragmentation of the Bronze was clearly traumatizing, but we are in a very different situation - despite inadvertant advertising, we are much less visible (the Bronze was an 'official' UPN board, no?)

flea, usually the Bronze you'll see Bronzer-Buffistas mention was the WB's official Buffy posting board. With the occasional VIP posting here and the citations in web-articles, I don't know that we're any less visible than the Bronze Beta.

and also we are at a very different place in the cycle of Buffy's public visibilty (I'm guessing, but did the Bronze break down in Season 2 or 3?).

From what I understand, it took more than one break to fell the poor Bronze. There were wars, and I wasn't there for most. The beginning of the end of Bronze-as-community, was when the WB lost BtVS to UPN. The WB shut down the board (it'll be two years, July 10th, sniff) at the end of season 5.

A few Bronzers opened temporary homes (and one of those was the Bronze Beta - so take 'temporary' as you will) during the diaspora, and it's during the diaspora, the community (as I saw it) breathed its last. The UPN "Bronze" posting board opened up in October, 2001, but it was too little, too late. It may now have been closed as long as it was open. On top of having interminable registration/post-processing problems, it turned into a pit for cyberscum, and UPN finally shut it, and opened in its stead, a chat *shudder* room.

Because it's visually similar to the real Bronze, the Beta became a sort of de facto Bronze (bot). Some people there consider it 'the Bronze'. A good portion of the community was lost though, and for some of us, it's not even a ghost of the original.

Buffistas are in a somewhat different position, because this board is community-owned. Hopefully, that will make the difference. Also, the population here is (or at least posts as if it is) made up of slightly older skewing, better educated, calmer people, who want to have good discussions. But that can go to hell in a heartbeat, and I think that's what scares Allyson; I know it's what scares me. If enough people who make this place so great get disgusted by anything - bureaucracy, voting, thread proliferation, refusal of new threads, bullshit-consensus, spoiler rules, number slutting, lack of ENUF, implementation of ENUF, back-channel, too-tough warning procedures, too-loose warning procedures, it can happen here, too.

When the WB pulled the plug on the Bronze, Allyson told us all to hold hands and stick together. We didn't. We died. So although I'm not standing that close to where Allyson stands, with BtVS ending, and all our bureau-angst (to which I know I've contributed) I can see the ground beneath her feet, and it's not quick-sand. ijs.

Susan - fwiw, I always see you as cool, and objective.

That's just because I avoid some topics altogether, and delete posts quickly if I realize I've flown off the handle.

I sometimes tell people I was a Klingon raised on Vulcan--I want to be the cool, objective one, but I have this volatile, combative temper that comes surging to the surface every so often no matter how I try to keep it in check.

I sometimes tell people I was a Klingon raised on Vulcan--I want to be the cool, objective one, but I have this volatile, combative temper that comes surging to the surface every so often no matter how I try to keep it in check.

heh. me, too, but I'm getting better....