I suspect there will be beating of my ass with the asshat.

Also, shoot me now, because I am skimming, like 1000 posts on thread naming.

I am so sorry, Sophia. I knew someone would have to take on the pain and suffering of WX B1. FWIW, Phx B1 is no great picnic either, although as an historical note, the Politics proposal came for the first time here about 5 days after we went live. But yes, much in the way of bad feelings, both before and after voting. Remember the 500 posts about math??

Sean, all due respect, I am generally against the "fuck it" method of self-rule. It tends to lead to many unintended consequences and sometimes to unintended precedents that people want to follow forever and ever after. I am all about the think-before-you-strike. And then saying "fuck it" at the last minnute and flying to Los Angeles, but that's another matter.

Allyson, I can see you're feeling pessimistic generally.

That's pretty accurate, yup. I realize that I'm on the far end of pessimism, as well. I understand this can be frustrating and generally try not to interfere unless my back gets so up about an issue that my head is explody. In which case, I should probably still not get involved. Bureaucracy, mostly, makes me seeth with hate and is why I needed to back away from the Buffistae. All my ishes. I'm owning them, and hugging them, and naming them George.

Don't take everything so seriously, Allyson.

I think we're missing each other's gist. I feel that you take things too seriously, almost all the time, and that your constant poking at The Way Things Are Done sucks the fun out of my own Buffistae experience?

Do I trust you? Nope. Not in the least. I don't know you. I trust ita and Kat and Lori and Kristen and Monique, because they aren't just Buffistas, but meatspace folks I know well.

Trust a collective of 100 people I don't know well to not hyperbole their way through renaming every Buffista 7 of 10, 8 of 10, and so on, so that gosh darn it, everyone will be equal? NSM.

We're still ruling by our social stock, we've just created the illusion of community consensus. There's a subcommunity of people who discuss, vote, and write 8 page posts on the definition of quorum, and the subcommunity seems to be making decisions for the rest of the community.

Or, I'm on crack. Which is always a possibility.

2 things-- i get what you are saying, Allyson, but I don't know whether you are asking for a smaller number of people to make decisions or a larger number (which I don't think we can regulate)

and I just wanted to post this lovely post from askye that I found in the WX Bureacracy when everyone was sort of worrying about what would happen when we had our own board and Buffy et als were cancelled:

I agree with Hec. This is what I've had in my head: that once we move to our new home,and even if/when Joss shows end the Buffista Community will still stay strong, however it will need to evolve and I think we, as a community, will help it evolve.

Already the community has evolved and changed from when it started on TT. When I stumbled on to Table Talk (can't remember what number the Buffy forum was on), it was basically just people talking about Buffy and Angel. There were the Quotes Threads. Sure the same people talked in other places on TT and had other areas of interest. I found the Fanfiction thread and got interested and involved over there, and also in other areas. Not hugely active, but regularly/semi regularly posting. Then Spike's Bitches started. Then someone mentioned something about the threads moving to fast with all the Natter so Natter was created, but we had to "hide" it so it was pushed off in another area of Table Talk and some poeple forgot it was there.

THEN TT went pay for play and we moved here.

And, for me, this is when I started really noticing a community forming. We started talking about making our own home. Natter took off, suddenly we weren't just talking about the shows but we were talking about our lives, politics, people were getting together, trips were being planned. Spike's Bitches evolved into a Writing Workshops within fanfiction areas flourished. We started developing more slang and more injokes (at least I think).

THIS is where I think we really became The Buffistas. A community. A Town. A Family.

So when all the Joss stuff goes away, and we are just left with reruns. We'll still be here. Because, now, for many of us (I don't know about all of us) I think it's gone beyond being about Buffy and Angel and Fanfiction and Smallville and started being about US.

So we can work at evolving, when the time comes, to be a web community that discusses books,movies, atheletics, politics, general life, whatever. I hope we grow, I hope we find more like minded people. I hope we can sustain our community. I hope I don't sound like the World's Biggest Sap.

I don't have a huge experience with Web Communities. But I've seen one torn apart because the originator was, frankly, a petty minded bitch, and the people involved weren't close enough to keep the momemtum going to rebuild another board.

I think we are different. I think we are close enough. I think because we are dedicated to building our own home, we can be dedicated enough keeping it together.

Oh god. Now I feel like flag waving sap.

Sophia, I'd rather have a small team of advocates make community decisions on behalf of the community. I'm really very clear on what the criteria for that group should be, but posting it? I've already lost enough status on Zoe.

Also, in WX Bureau we talked about sending our 9/11 posts to the Smithsonian. Did we ever do that?

Interestingly, I agree with you Allyson, although we would probably disagree about who. I would so much rather we didn't have to think about things and could just post about Buffy and natter and Movies and whatever else. The opposition to that idea was so strong by both posters and Stompies that I don't think it would ever fly, although that is completely the way to do it so that we don't have endless circular discussions. However, I think others are less irritated by them than I am. That was the whole reason I pushed for voteing, specifically to get a faux-concensus that would enable us to stop talkng about Bureacracy.

Did we ever decide upon whether we would trash the voting if say, voter turnout was so consistently low, we'd have to concede that we had moved to an advocacy based decision making process?

Well, minimum voter turnout is the closest we are to what you're describing, Allyson. So far, all our votes have easily made the minimum.

Yeah, I have seen representative government proposed here, and as I recall, it got violent, immediate, and almost unanimous opposition that day (clearly, not everybody did or does feel opposed to it). Me, I haven't seen any disasters yet, and what I have seen wouldn't particularly be improved by presidential elections, so I'm still firmly in the run around in a caucus till we're all exhausted camp.

Eh. I am grain of salt girl. Not everybody's salt is as large-grain as mine.

Did we ever decide upon whether we would trash the voting if say, voter turnout was so consistently low, we'd have to concede that we had moved to an advocacy based decision making process?

I think what we have decided on a consensus basis, is that in extreme circumstances we're allowed to break the rules. If this place gets to a point where ballots never get the MVT, then I think folks will agree that changing the rules is appropriate. Although I think that situation would be more a sign of low board participation in general (see my previous comment... t edit I meant my post here: Jon B. "Voting Discussion: We're Screwing In Light Bulbs AIFG!" May 16, 2003 4:15:20 pm EDT )