I remember a long time ago (10+ years) Sunil posted about watching a woman on a train and then following her off the train and trailing her for a while. Numerous people chastised him for it. I thought he had learned his lesson.

I haven't been around much lately and haven't talked to him in years, but I support banning him for all the reasons mentioned above.

That most recent link from Dana is chilling to me, and seems to indicate someone who has no intention or ability to learn from previous behavior.

Jess, I suck - I remember that post and I didn't say anything at the time. I figured if no one else had said something, it wasn't my place, or maybe there was backchannel discussion going on that I wasn't privy to.

I do know that when my friends have had uncomfortable, creepy, interactions with PC, others in the community here have asked for more proof, or asked that PC + female try to get along better. I had hoped that he'd grow up, that he'd learn his behavior was unacceptable.

Unfortunately, he's found, in the writing world, that his behavior is not only acceptable but gives him the kind of power and influence he craves. The Buffistas who are also connected to SF/F writing and fandom are already feeling the backlash from the fact that women have started speaking up (even if those women themselves aren't Buffistas).

I'm fine with the board ban (he's only part of the reason I'm not here much), but perhaps some of us should also provide support in other fora, so that his narrative isn't the only one out there.

But you know, when people feel humiliated or used or stalked or gaslight, every demand for proof is just more of that.

Worth saying twice!

It's a no-win situation, frankly. From the outside, I know this looks like "the lurkers support me in email!" But those lurkers used to be active community members, and if we can trust them enough to ban Sunil, maybe we can get them back.

But those lurkers used to be active community members, and if we can trust them enough to ban Sunil, maybe we can get them back.

That would be my hope.

I see a pattern of behavior. Four instances on the board where he stalked a woman, was chastised, apologized, and didn't stop. And I've seen two posts on Twitter where he apologized eloquently and promised to change, and didn't stop. All over a decade or more. That's more than enough evidence for me that there must be much more that I haven't seen, and he's got no intention of stopping.

This isn't a court of law, and doesn't have to be. It's a community and a lot of us don't want him in it anymore. Like erika said, he might learn better, but he doesn't have to do it in our space.

Do we, as a community, want to continue to support someone's "learning process" when we know first-hand it's been a decade-plus and have heard second-hand that if anything, he's gotten more sophisticated in his bad behavior. I say no.

Exactly! Also, even if he is sincerely remorseful and eventually succeeds in his attempts to do better doesn't mean he doesn't have to suffer the consequences of his actions. The consequence being he is no longer welcome in this space.

but perhaps some of us should also provide support in other fora, so that his narrative isn't the only one out there.

I've been thinking about this a lot, especially wrt Twitter, where I have spoken to him more than on any other forum, but I don't know how to go about it. Any advice would be appreciated by me.

Also, even if he is sincerely remorseful and eventually succeeds in his attempts to do better doesn't mean he doesn't have to suffer the consequences of his actions. The consequence being he is no longer welcome in this space.

This is where I am at. I do hope he knows he has an issue and fixes it, but the consequence is losing this wonderful place. Many of us have made mistakes that had permanent consequences. Life lessons often suck.

Also, even if he is sincerely remorseful and eventually succeeds in his attempts to do better doesn't mean he doesn't have to suffer the consequences of his actions. The consequence being he is no longer welcome in this space.

Yeah, this is where I'm at, too. The other reason I support banning him is that to do less, now that we know how his actions have hurt people in our community, seems like a slap in the face to those he has hurt, pissed off, or driven away. And I would much rather support them than keep enabling him.

I'm going to speak to how he's being perceived professionally since that's been the bulk of my interactions with him.

Professionally, he's already beginning to suffer consequences—he had a successful female author who was mentoring him during his novel-writing process who has disavowed him and distanced herself from him publicly. And the writing community, as evidenced just by Twitter is talking. They were talking this summer at various events where it started to become clear that he had a reputation and that it wasn't a good one.

I have no fear of him professionally because I've never been of any use to him professionally, so I simply have never mattered—besides, when you've had someone try to sue you for use of your own name, you get to a certain point of having zero anything left to give.

What I can say with certainty is that I saw shades of the behavior so many describe--not enough to make me intervene but when put in context of repeated reports, it becomes more evident. Thing is, I don't think it's always conscious-- he becomes aware of it after the fact, which is problematic in and of itself, since it seems to speak to a deeper rooted issue that needs to be addressed.

Admittedly, I haven't been as active on the board in recent years, so obviously, take what I say with a grain of salt, but much in the same way I don't want him working through his issues within the writing community I don't think this is the place he needs to be for support.