t throws pink flowers at msbelle's feet

oh my goodness.

Well I caught up in Bureau and (everyone act surprised) I was not convinced by anything there to increase the number of seconds required. I get that some people disagree and all I can say is, maybe they will step up next time something needs to be decided and draft the language before me.

I am really not willing to write a proposal I don't agree with in an attempt to please people, and I really don't think increasing that number will please everyone.

No one seems angry over there which is good. I think the disagreements are pretty minor.

Whoa, what a time I picked to go away for a while. (Actually, I was right here, it was my computer that went away for medical care.)

I like msbelle's proposal, though I have a couple of questions.

2. A user-complainant (does not need to be same person) will post in-thread that it's time to meet in Bureaucracy.

3. A user-complainant posts in Bureaucracy outlining complaint and linky citations, and requests a Warning.

So if I feel a situation is getting heated, and ask the poster offending me to meet me in bureaucracy to discuss, does this automatically constitute a request for a warning? By this point, asking the poster to address the issue in-thread has presumably already failed, but what if my aim is just to get a little distance, to stop disrupting the thread while the issue at hand is hashed out, hopefully forestalling the need for a warning? Should there be an option for a middle step here?

PROPOSAL: The procedure for lodging a complaint and requesting action after an initial Warning, will be the same as for a Warning. (in-thread attempt, post in Bureaucracy, 10 seconds in 48 hours, action).

Hmm. Just looking at the most recent situation, will this bottle things up more than necessary? A warning was issued, was promptly violated, and DX took immediate action. But I guess if 10 seconds had been needed, it wouldn't have taken any time to get them, so I'm probably picking at nits here.

I don't see the need for a stated time frame for bringing things to the warning stage, whether a minimum or maximum. Since an attempt must be made in thread to resolve before asking for a warning, we've got a minimum action that takes the place of a minimum time frame. And we tend towards contortionism in our efforts to be scrupulously fair around here, so I think that if I'm running to bureaucracy over something that happened three weeks ago without incident and is considered over and done, I'm going to have a tough time finding my seconds. The requirement to make an in-thread attempt to resolve will also work against me dragging up old stuff unfairly.

I don't see the need for a stated time frame for bringing things to the warning stage, whether a minimum or maximum.

Do you mean the 48 hours? It was my understanding that that period was to prevent someone from deciding to self-Doblerize, leaving the thread and then coming back a few days later to discover they'd received an official warning.

So if I feel a situation is getting heated, and ask the poster offending me to meet me in bureaucracy to discuss, does this automatically constitute a request for a warning?

Good question. If not, then it seems to me that steps 2 & 3 could be combined into a single step:

2. A user-complainant (does not need to be same person) will post in-thread that it's time to meet in Bureaucracy. In Bureaucracy the user-complainant will outline the complaint with linky citations, and requests an Action.

I'm confused.

and requests an Action

I think this is the key. Requesting an action.

If Allyson says, "bitterchick, get your ass over to Bureaucracy to discuss this matter," that's very different from, "bitterchick's being a bitch and I want her warned officially to quit it."

Argh, I though I copied and pasted the whole thing. What I mean is, I'm confused, are we making it a requirement that if someone has a problem with another person, they can ask that they take it out of the thread and into Bureaucracy?

Is that a requirement for the person who is pissing the other off? If bitterchick makes me want to slap her, I tell her to take it to Bureaucracy...but what if she doesn't want to go?

If Allyson says, "bitterchick, get your ass over to Bureaucracy to discuss this matter," that's very different from, "bitterchick's being a bitch and I want her warned officially to quit it."

Yes, exactly. If I'm being pissy in the Angel thread, and a request to stop hasn't resolved the situation, someone might want to continue to try to get me to see the light without tying up the show thread when a new ep is about to begin. But they might not be sure yet that I need to be officially warned. So I'd like there to be a notation that they can ask me to come over here and explain myself before they actually request a warning and seconds. (If they choose - maybe I'm being such a bitch that they want to go straight to warning me, and they should be able to do that too.)

I combined 2&3. Also please note the language change. The term is Action to avoid confusion.

PROPOSAL: The following procedure will be in place for taking action for unacceptable behaviour.
1. A user-complainant will try to resolve the complaint on-thread. If unsuccessful,
2. A user-complainant (does not need to be same person) will post in-thread that it's time to meet in Bureaucracy. In Bureaucracy, user-complainant will outline the complaint with linky citations, and request an Action.
3. At least 10 other users in 48 hours second the need for an Action. If 10 other users do not complain within the 48 hour period, no complaint can be made again about that particular incident, unless it is being used to illustrate, with others, a pattern of demon-like behaviour. 4. As soon as the request for action receives 10 seconds, Stompy sets forth Action.

Yes/No

PROPOSAL: Warnings will be in effect for four months. After four months, the slate is wiped clean.

Yes/No

PROPOSAL: A Warning will be notified over email, in the thread of incident, and in Bureaucracy. A Suspension will be notified over email and in Bureaucracy. A Ban will be notified by email and in Press.

Yes/No

To address brenda's point:

By this point, asking the poster to address the issue in-thread has presumably already failed.

If by “failed” you mean they are still being offensive, then I hope that a warning would be requested and my guess is that if you don’t do it, someone else will.

If by “failed” you mean, there is an active discussion going on, about the behaviour in question, but it is not offensive. Then I assume the non-thread topic related discussion could move to email or Bureau or elsewhere.

but what if my aim is just to get a little distance, to stop disrupting the thread while the issue at hand is hashed out.

Then don’t ask for the warning. If someone else does, then that is their deal, but no one is gonna force you to request an Action.