Two by two, hands of blue. Two by two, hands of blue.

River ,'Ariel'


Voting Discussion: We're Screwing In Light Bulbs AIFG!  

We open it up, we talks the talk, we votes, we shuts it down. This thread is to free up Bureaucracy for daily details as we hammer out the Big Issues towards a vote. Open only when a proposal has been made and seconded according to Buffista policy (Which we voted on!). If this thread is closed, hie thee to Bureaucracy instead!


Cass - Apr 20, 2008 3:15:56 pm PDT #8599 of 10289
Bob's learned to live with tragedy, but he knows that this tragedy is one that won't ever leave him or get better.

For you the splintering ruins community. For me the lack of being able to choose particular areas to go and talk easily depending on my available time and current obession ruins community. Our two ideals for community seem to be in direct opposition to each other.
(I am not Jessica and make no claim, but I want to answer this for myself.)

This? Is exactly why we have a process. We're never going to have a board that works perfectly for every member in every situation. We try for the best board for the most people. We propose, we discuss, we vote, we live with the results. This is the whole point, to me.


NoiseDesign - Apr 20, 2008 3:20:19 pm PDT #8600 of 10289
Our wings are not tired

I know it is. I participate in the votes for this reason. I am just stating that for me the direction things have gone have made the board less and less my beautiful cake. I know it is not the case for everyone or even for anyone other than me. We will vote. I will go with the vote. Doesn't make me less sad for the fact that things don't always go the way I'd like them to but I'm also not climing any clock towers with bolt action rifles.


NoiseDesign - Apr 20, 2008 3:25:41 pm PDT #8601 of 10289
Our wings are not tired

billytea - Apr 20, 2008 4:12:24 pm PDT #8602 of 10289
You were a wrong baby who grew up wrong. The wrong kind of wrong. It's better you hear it from a friend.

I know it is. I participate in the votes for this reason. I am just stating that for me the direction things have gone have made the board less and less my beautiful cake. I know it is not the case for everyone or even for anyone other than me. We will vote. I will go with the vote. Doesn't make me less sad for the fact that things don't always go the way I'd like them to but I'm also not climing any clock towers with bolt action rifles.

I didn't know cruise ships even had clock towers.

I'm voting yes for the gaming thread, big surprise there. I would however like to note my support for discussing it. I think it's got a good shot at taking off, and I think it'll benefit the community here more than it hurts, but I also think both the thread scepticism and the fragmentation concerns are reasonable positions. If the thread gets voted down, that's fine.

A few other random thoughts: I don't think thread fragmentation has damaged the community. I think that happened when Buffy and Angel went off the air. While they were still showing, defining this board's raison d'etre was comparatively easy. Now it's not. All things considered, we've done remarkably well at keeping a community together in dificult circumstances.

This leads me to why I like having many thread options here. People need a reason to stick around, and different people will have different reasons. Additional threads create additional ways for people to interact with the boards, and thus gives more people a reason to stick around. This isn't an argument against the current process. the fact that we vote in most threads but reject a few tells me that we get the balance about right.

Finally, the idea that having more threads creates subcmmunities that bleed people off from the main community: as mentioned, I think it's a coherent argument. Could happen. I don't think it has, does, or will do, but others will look at stuff and reasonably conclude otherwise. I do, however, get just a little nervous at the idea that preserving this community entails denying some of its users options they reasonably want. I'd rather believe this community is vibrant enough to survive and attract participation from people within any subcommunities on its own merits. Yes, harder without the shared experience of Buffy and Angel, but I guess I'd rather look at ways to increase traffic flow into the centre (so to speak) than to try to prevent movement out. If that makes any sense.


Jessica - Apr 20, 2008 5:10:07 pm PDT #8603 of 10289
And then Ortus came and said "It's Ortin' time" and they all Orted off into the sunset

In general, that has already happened, and I don't think it is the fault of new threads.

I agree, it has, and I don't want it to get any worse. But if the existence of splinter communities within Buffistas isn't caused by the threads where those communities spring up, then what is it?

Mostly though, I'm very very tired of talking about it. I feel like every time we open Lightbulbs it's just another exercise in endurance - whoever has the stamina to still give a fuck after 4 days wins. And I have no more stomach for this fight, so I'm going to bed.

Here's the truth - I hope nobody ever proposes another thread again, because it will mean that this is the last time this conversation ever has to happen.


billytea - Apr 20, 2008 5:29:07 pm PDT #8604 of 10289
You were a wrong baby who grew up wrong. The wrong kind of wrong. It's better you hear it from a friend.

I agree, it has, and I don't want it to get any worse. But if the existence of splinter communities within Buffistas isn't caused by the threads where those communities spring up, then what is it?

I think that the existence of splinter threads is symptom rather than cause. The way you see it is a valid reading, but it's not so much my reading. My opinion is that people will stay in the centre if the centre has sufficient pull to attract them. (My opinion is also that I'd like to see the centre thrive, and I'd like to see people in the subcommunities want to participate there, and maybe it's worth looking at how to improve its appeal sometime.)

Mostly though, I'm very very tired of talking about it. I feel like every time we open Lightbulbs it's just another exercise in endurance - whoever has the stamina to still give a fuck after 4 days wins. And I have no more stomach for this fight, so I'm going to bed.

Yeah. I rarely participate in new thread debates, but it's easy to see the stress it causes people of all opinions. I have no solutions to that, unfortunately.

On a more positive note, I don't think that these debates have as much influence as all that, i.e. I don't think it goes to the side with the most endurance. The debate does bring out things to consider, but ultimately I think most people make up their own minds, and certainly I don't expect many people will change their minds on the pro-lif/anti-lif spectrum because of it. (Any correlation between the voting results and the direction of the voting discussion at the end, IMO, is more likely to stem from both of them being an expression of one kind or another of the board's opinion than from one heavily influencing the other.)


Kristen - Apr 20, 2008 5:31:13 pm PDT #8605 of 10289

On a more positive note, I don't think that these debates have as much influence as all that, i.e. I don't think it goes to the side with the most endurance.

I'd be curious to know how many people vote without ever reading Lightbulbs. It wouldn't surprise me if there were quite a few.


billytea - Apr 20, 2008 5:36:05 pm PDT #8606 of 10289
You were a wrong baby who grew up wrong. The wrong kind of wrong. It's better you hear it from a friend.

I'd be curious to know how many people vote without ever reading Lightbulbs. It wouldn't surprise me if there were quite a few.

I predict renewed interest in this thread when I follow up the current Bitches discussion with a "Should Kristin be less comfortable about nudity?" vote.


Pix - Apr 20, 2008 5:40:08 pm PDT #8607 of 10289
We're all getting played with, babe. -Weird Barbie

Oh dear gods. Billytea, you are officially On The List.


billytea - Apr 20, 2008 5:41:07 pm PDT #8608 of 10289
You were a wrong baby who grew up wrong. The wrong kind of wrong. It's better you hear it from a friend.

Oh dear gods. Billytea, you are officially On The List.

Please. I've been listing ever since that hip injury.